Andy Ellis

Like the companies that are taking a risk are not doing transformational level risk that is going to cost the company billions of dollars.

It's AB testing, different marketing concepts.

It's trying this new technology, et cetera.

So it's not big bang risk.

It's, it's small risk.

That's tolerable.

think the last thing david that you asked was about executives that want certainty i have encountered so many board meetings and executives that say like can you tell me we won't get hacked and as we know that's super dangerous to promise things so we got to be really careful there and

Be transparent that there's no sure things, but immediately pivot that conversation to how we're managing that risk to give them that comfort, right, to really enable that business goal that they're trying to do and achieve that right balance.

But certainty, always a risk.

I'm sure Andy would agree on that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So so first off, we've joked about it here the last time I was on, but posting an entry level role with ten years of experience, that's just that's the thing that happens and it's it's the running joke.

So assuming that we can squash that one specifically for junior roles, when I'm hiring, you've got to be a realistic hiring manager about it, right?

We can't have tons and tons of experience expectations.

What I'm looking for is someone who shows initiative that they can show us examples of that continual willingness to learn.

That can be formal.

That can be through different organizations.

It could be home labs, things like that.

But ultimately, and I'm sure not all leaders are this way, but I've got countless examples throughout my career where we've grown employees that come in as maybe a project manager or help desk or salespeople from security tools.