Angie "Pumps" Sullivan

Yeah, totally, totally.

Because when that veneer is broken, that, oh my God, it's not perfect.

Because what you're doing with that veneer is you're living in judgment.

That means you're judging everybody else by the veneer of their family.

And once that veneer is broken, then you need to go to somebody that's judgment free.

That's like, look, man, we're all fucking broken behind every... I always think when I drive through like nice neighborhoods, I always think behind every single one of these doors, right?

are just secrets and and listen i think generally people can be happy i think that mega church culture white upper middle class mega church culture is a really specific broken culture these are the people that turn out in droves to vote for to triple trump

And I think they have, there's a combination of a culty religion, evangelical Christianity, combined with like this capitalism, combined with appearance culture.

You know, like if we look good and if we do matching Christmas pajama pictures, then we're going to be fine.

all family you know and it's just it's the real moments are the moments that aren't on instagram the real moments are the moments that you have like i can tell that our family's been through so much you guys are talking about pumps but josh and i've been through so much and just this past spring break the whole the kids everybody was here and

I called Josh and we did take one family photo.

And I thought, you know what?

That means we're living, we're enjoying each other.

There was not a moment where we thought, oh my God, we better look like we're the happy family.

Not that...

I wish we had the family photo, but it's like, we, we had one of the best spring breaks ever.

We were all in New York and it was so much fun.

The weather was like glorious two or three days and we had the best time and we didn't have to do any, I realized like we didn't take one fucking photo of all of us together.

And then I realized, okay, that's really great.

That's growth.