Anita Arnand

We're the ones that matter.

And, you know, everyone outside is potentially an enemy.

And actually, we don't care.

We don't think about them.

You know, we will do what we do because we care about our family.

Does that depress you about the human spirit that so many people are willing to switch off the part of themselves that thinks, you know what, this person who is standing either surveying a smoldering village or is protesting at a funeral of a dead serviceman, that they're willing to switch that off and follow?

What have you learned about the human condition that that can happen?

I mean, I've been sort of looking at your work over many years and I think what you do is really interesting.

And I think the space that you give people to speak and also the fact that you leave the spaces in to me is utterly fascinating.

And if you work as I do, I work for the BBC, but I work in news and you don't have room for the spaces.

It seems to me that you've been studying the same question for around 30 years now, which is how ordinary people end up sort of holding either extreme or fringe beliefs, whatever, and then acting on them.

And I wanted to bring in the thing that's blown up for you this year, Inside the Manosphere on Netflix.

And just again, if you are one of the two people who hasn't seen this now, this is all about men selling courses and lifestyle.

It's a particular brand of swaggering misogyny and they target teenage boys largely.

Now on the surface, you couldn't get something that's more different from The Settlers.

It's a film about land and military occupation.

But watch them back to back as I have and it's all about the construction of an enemy who isn't quite human.

Communities of men who've decided that those people are outside our tribe and empathy.

They don't deserve it.

Am I overreaching or is that something that you feel?