Anita Arnand

And by the way, some of them with the grandchildren of those who came over and settled in 1948.

I mean, these are people with roots now for two generations.

But these are specifically bombed because it is argued that of these 400,000, what was the number you gave?

15,000.

15,000 are fighters, are Palestinian fighters.

We're going to take a break.

Join us after the break where we talk about what kind of toll this kind of targeted campaign has, not just on the Palestinians, but on the Lebanese too, who are living cheek by jowl with these people.

So let's talk about those complex negotiations because the one man who's chosen, you know, as the Reagan pressure, you know, if it comes right from the top, the pressure is huge.

To sort this out or to have some kind of exit strategy or release of a valve is this American envoy, Philip Habib, who is actually of Lebanese extraction, Lebanese Mennonite Christian, served during World War II, joined the Foreign Service in 1949, was a key advisor in Vietnam.

He's got the pedigree and he's got the chops to do this.

A Brooklyn-born and also a bulldozer.

So how does Habib go about this and what does he accomplish?

Who were promised so much more.

But the man who was this kind of, if you like, the sword arm of Israel, the phalangist leader who's now the president-elect, he's not long for this world either.

So tell us the circumstances of the end of Bashir Jamal.

How does it happen?

And how unexpected is it to the people of Lebanon?

Well, like a whiny boy, like the whiny boy that they called him all along.

I mean, there have been investigations.

I mean, I've seen documentaries about this, you know, some of the survivors talking about some of the most hideous atrocities taking place against the elderly and the young and everyone in between.