Anne Applebaum

But a lot of it is coming from the society itself.

And I think...

In fact, this change happened a while ago.

It really began a year ago.

But, Scott, you're right that in the last couple months, it suddenly becomes clear.

And the perception is shifting, and that changes also the way the Russians see the war.

I'm sure Fiona's been following that.

And that changes the way the assumptions people are making about its outcome.

It could be that there is another shift and Ukrainians begin moving forward.

That hasn't happened yet.

But certainly the ability of the Russians to move forward has stopped completely.

A few months ago, there was a leak from the office of one of Putin's advisors, Sergei Kiryatko, who's actually a former prime minister of Russia.

And the leak was of a kind of slide deck, a presentation.

And the presentation was a description of

how we will sell the end of the war to the Russians.

In other words, it was a great victory.

We defeated the combined forces of the West.

We damaged Ukraine.

We avoided worse consequences.

We took over.