Annie Jacobsen

And so I am an eternal optimist and I do look to conversation and new media as a means to a better way or a means to a way out of this kind.

I think that – I believe the tide will turn.

But also what's remarkable is you hear people often say, like, people have lost their attention spans.

They watch TikTok.

Well, I mean, people listen to your podcast for three hours, right?

That is a very long attention span and I find that kind of like brain conditioning really valuable because I will listen to a podcast for three hours and also in a – it might be on an airplane and then, oh, my phone tells me I have this much time left on the podcast so I continue listening.

on a hike and I think that it is a very different kind of mental stimulus curiosity in a new way forward than the old days of reading a newspaper you know it takes you this amount of time to read and then you I mean newspapers barely exist anymore

Who's Alan Watts?

Well, I also think there's something to be said as an individual when you start to be a little bit conscious of your own habits in viewing and thinking and reading and information.

So you get absorbed in the TikTok.

And then you get to say to yourself, like, what am I doing?

I want to actually change this habit.

And we all benefit from seeing how easy it is to develop a habit.

Yes.

And how hard it is.

to sort of move yourself away from a habit as you as you become entrenched in it and so i think there's complete value in that people suddenly realize i gotta stop watching tick tock videos and i gotta go to the gym as which is another you know right but that's a difficult sort of an adjustment and most people don't like difficult things so if you if you get a hundred people addicted to tick tock

What is that?

They can't make it fast enough?

It's flying off the shelves.

Okay, here's a strange...