Annie Jacobsen

There was a true red phone that would be used in a nuclear crisis for him to call Nikita Khrushchev.

And he became worried that that wasted too much time to get through.

And so he hired a guy called J.C.R.

Licklider to develop computers that could move faster.

And at the time, the computers were the size of this room in the Defense Department.

And there were these old mainframes.

And Licklider...

is he's called the Johnny Appleseed of the internet.

In essence, he's the guy who created the ARPANET, which is now the internet.

And so there's this interesting dual-use technology idea that everything that, at the Pentagon at least, in the defense world, so much of our amazing technology is born out of

you know, trying to save the world from existential threat.

And I always think that dual use part of everything is super interesting.

Look at lasers, you know, lasers are arguably perhaps the most important technological defense born, you know, system of the 20th century.

Laser printers, laser surgery, laser eyes.

And then you have laser weapons at the Pentagon so classified I can't even get anywhere near that.

They're called directed energy weapons.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I always think conspiracy is born of secrecy, which would make sense if some if someone is constantly telling you you can't know about that.

You're going to naturally wonder what the hell is going on that I really can't know.

What's so secret?