Baroness Louise Casey

The other trick is to really make sure you let the evidence take you to the conclusion.

So, if Alan, for example, Milburn, decided he just thinks we should be doing welfare reform, and so you write a report that backs up your view on welfare reform, it's going to fail.

If the evidence takes you to a point where you can see that something needs to change...

I think you have more chance of getting your recommendations heard.

So I think it is a really strong use of evidence.

I wasn't going to say we needed a statutory inquiry into grooming gangs a year ago.

I wasn't convinced of the need for it.

And during the time that I was doing the audit, I became more and more convinced that we needed a different type of inquiry.

It's not it's not a normal inquiry, but I was convinced in partly actually Andy Burnham at the time was the Manchester is the Manchester mayor still.

But he he was for a statutory inquiry.

And I was like, you're just trying to blame the entire thing on somebody else.

Right.

And I was quite, okay, why do you want a statutory inquiry?

And he said, I have people that are called before, he got these reviews done, and I know this feeling, and people would not give the whole truth.

And why he wanted a statutory inquiry is so that people would have to tell the truth under oath.

And I thought to myself, halfway through that audit, I was so frustrated with people not being completely truthful with me, I thought, I tell you what, we're going to do a different type of national inquiry.

So I spent 45 minutes in his study discussing why we needed... He is a lawyer.

And so what happens is you have to almost prosecute your case.

I've no idea.

I've never had to ask him to be a lawyer.