Barry Ward

Morning, David, how are you?

Well, the first thing is I agree with much of what Richard has said.

I'm appalled by the actions of Israel.

I think most Irish people are.

I agree with the notion that there should be sanctions on Israel and I would like to see that come to pass.

So there's lots in Richard's bill and the spirit of it that I absolutely agree with.

The difficulty I have is that sanctions are not something we do unilaterally as a country.

And Richard, I know, has previously spoken about this.

He's referred to the swiftness with which sanctions were imposed on Russia when they behaved similarly in terms of invading Ukraine.

The difference is those sanctions were imposed by the European Commission and at European level, not at national level within the European Union.

So as much as I would agree with it, as much as I'd like to see it happen, I also deal with the real world and the fact that Ireland does not have the power to unilaterally impose sanctions on Israel.

Well, there is.

And what's happening at the moment is, if you look at Helen McAtee, for example, she's working all the time at the Foreign Affairs Council at European level to build a coalition of people who are calling for exactly what Richard is calling for, but at the European level.

And you will know, and you've said yourself, the Irish government has been the strongest voice condemning what Israel is doing in Gaza.

Stronger than many others.

Well, I would say it's the strongest voice.

And we're starting to build a coalition behind that.

So I know Helen is working with her counterparts in Spain and Slovenia at the moment to keep this issue in relation to the EU-Israel Association Agreement at European level, to keep that on the table, to keep the possibility that we would actually impose these sanctions through the withdrawal of preferential terms for Israel in terms of trade.

That's where we can actually make a difference.

I mean, yes, there is, but that's not a good reason not to do it.