Barry Ward

So the government is entitled to refuse the export license, but it must be satisfied that its end use is for something, for example, for military purpose.

So the point of what I'm making is that the only basis on which the government can refuse the license is in accordance with European law.

It can't just be because we're unhappy.

Richard, listen to me now for a second, OK?

Because I'm disgusted by what the IDF is doing.

I'm disgusted at the fact that any company is dealing with them.

But unfortunately, my disgust is not a legal basis for the government of Ireland to refuse an export licence.

We have the right under the Genocide Convention.

We have the right under the Genocide Convention.

Richard, the number of those export licenses fluctuates massively, whether it's with the IDF or anyone else.

And the reality is that we have to exercise within the rule of law.

At the same time, we're criticizing for Israel for not operating within the rule of law.

We can't then turn around and do it just because it's expedient for us to do it.

And you say it.

You say, ah, come on, Richard, but I'd say this to you.

You come on.

You're selling an idea to people that if we support this bill, that's going to change things when you know that it is legally unsound.

It is not permissible for Ireland to make unilateral sanctions actions.

The Genocide Convention is law.

The government is, yes, it is absolutely law.