Barry Ward

We're on the same side in terms of trading with Israel.

I'm not happy about it.

But what I said was, and this remains the case.

The Irish government cannot unilaterally decide we're not going to allow X software company to export a piece of software because we don't like Israel.

That's not a good legal reason.

Will you support the bill today?

I would support the notion that we would do that lawfully, Richard, but I don't want to be dishonest to people and suggest that your bill will actually be able to stop it.

Yes, we are, and I agree with you.

But the point that I made, you disagreed with me, and you're not right about this.

I am right.

No, no, let me finish.

The government is not entirely... Let him finish, Richard, please.

He's talking down the clock here.

No, I'm not, Richard.

I want to talk about this.

Let's say an Irish software company produces a piece of HR software that's used by a branch of the Israeli Defense Forces.

I'm not happy about that, but there's no lawful basis on which the minister for enterprise can refuse to grant that export license.

However, if, as you say, he's unhappy...

If, as you say, he's unhappy that it's going to be used for that, he can refuse it.

But there must be a base on which, when they carry out their investigation, that they don't have the information they need or they're not happy with what they're asking.