Barry Ward

I'm not happy at all about the fact that any company operating in Ireland is exporting to the Israeli Defence Forces.

But...

You will see now that the department has actually refused licenses for exactly this purpose.

And the human rights component of the tests that they carry out requires an awful lot of information about where it's going, what it's going to be used for, etc.

If they're in any way dissatisfied with the information they've gotten or the end user or anything like that, they can refuse the export license, but they can only do so under existing European and national law.

They have done that.

But in the context of the 20 million that Richard is talking about, first, there's a couple of important clarifiers.

The first is, it is a company based in Ireland that is exporting, not the government.

The government issues a license for them to do that.

Just let me finish.

Yes, they have to approve the license, Richard.

Let's say, for example, it's... No, they don't.

They don't.

That's why they... I'm just going to finish, Richard.

The point that I'm making is if it's for a non-lethal, non-military purpose, there isn't a justification for not approving the license.

That's not true, Barry.

It's not true.

Tell me what the basis on which the Irish government can refuse an export license for something that doesn't work.

But in the absence of that, Richard, there's not a basis on which they can do that.

I agree with you.