Bella Freud

And I wondered if there was a record cover that had particularly affected you or that you'd noted.

And I always remember Marvin Gaye, what's going on, and being totally obsessed with what he was wearing and how perfect he looked.

And this patent leather or leather jacket, you just see the collar and the black roll neck.

Exactly.

And just thinking...

There's so little, but so much there.

Yeah, I think she's written one of the best songs about emotional pain.

There's a line that goes something about my own private torture.

And I thought, God, yes, how does she know?

You know, it's so, so good.

I love her work.

In your song Room on your album My Soft Machine, you describe the fraughtness of being involved with someone where drugs came first.

And what do you think makes you the carer and not the actor-outer?

You describe it so well in your songs because a lot of your songs refer to that and all the things that I've been listening to, it sort of springs up like a mirage almost and I can picture those scenes and the feeling of it is so powerful and I really recognise that it's such a specific...

observation that a lot of people don't make or they miss it or they don't want to.

In 2022, when you were 22, you cancelled your US tour, saying your mental health had deteriorated to a debilitating place.

And it clearly takes a lot to stop you.

What was the thing that stopped you in this moment?

doing a lot of, you know, having a big life and doing a lot, sometimes I wonder what's the moment where you can't reset yourself?

Because I often think about that and think, what does that actually feel like when you know you have to stop rather than doing some breathing or, you know, doing the hoovering or whatever it is that calms you down and then you're back?