Ben Buchanan

Yeah, we did talk to economists and try to texture this debate in 23 and 24. I think... The trend line is even clearer now than it was then. I think we knew this was not going to be a 23 and 24 question. Frankly, to do anything robust about this is going to require Congress, and that was just not in the cards at all. So it was more of an intellectual exercise than it was a policy exercise.

Yeah, we did talk to economists and try to texture this debate in 23 and 24. I think... The trend line is even clearer now than it was then. I think we knew this was not going to be a 23 and 24 question. Frankly, to do anything robust about this is going to require Congress, and that was just not in the cards at all. So it was more of an intellectual exercise than it was a policy exercise.

Sure, yeah. I think that's fair. I think the advantage to AI that... is in some ways a countervailing force here, though I hear you and I mostly agree with your side's argument, is that it will increase the amount of agency for individual people.

Sure, yeah. I think that's fair. I think the advantage to AI that... is in some ways a countervailing force here, though I hear you and I mostly agree with your side's argument, is that it will increase the amount of agency for individual people.

So I do think we will be in a world in which the 19-year-old or the 25-year-old will be able to use a system to do things they were not able to do before. And I think insofar as The thesis we're batting around here is that intelligence will become a little bit more commoditized. What will stand out more in that world is agency and the capacity to do things or initiative and the like.

So I do think we will be in a world in which the 19-year-old or the 25-year-old will be able to use a system to do things they were not able to do before. And I think insofar as The thesis we're batting around here is that intelligence will become a little bit more commoditized. What will stand out more in that world is agency and the capacity to do things or initiative and the like.

And I think that could, in the aggregate, lead to a pretty dynamic economy. And the economy you're talking about of small firms and dynamic ecosystem and robust competition, I think on balance, at an economy scale, is not in itself a bad thing.

And I think that could, in the aggregate, lead to a pretty dynamic economy. And the economy you're talking about of small firms and dynamic ecosystem and robust competition, I think on balance, at an economy scale, is not in itself a bad thing.

I think where I imagine you and I agree and maybe Vice President Vance as well agree is we need to make sure that for individual workers and classes of workers, they're protected in that transition. I think we should be honest. That's going to be very hard. We have never done that well.

I think where I imagine you and I agree and maybe Vice President Vance as well agree is we need to make sure that for individual workers and classes of workers, they're protected in that transition. I think we should be honest. That's going to be very hard. We have never done that well.

So I think, yes, we were thinking about this question. I think we knew it was not going to be a question we were going to confront in the president's term. We knew it was a question that you would need Congress for to do anything about it. I think insofar as what you're expressing here seems to me to be like a deep dissatisfaction with the available answers. I share that.

So I think, yes, we were thinking about this question. I think we knew it was not going to be a question we were going to confront in the president's term. We knew it was a question that you would need Congress for to do anything about it. I think insofar as what you're expressing here seems to me to be like a deep dissatisfaction with the available answers. I share that.

I think a lot of us shared that. You can get the usual stock answers of a lot of retraining. I share your sort of doubts that that is the answer. You probably talk to some Silicon Valley libertarians or something and they'll say, or tech folks, and they'll say, well, universal basic income.

I think a lot of us shared that. You can get the usual stock answers of a lot of retraining. I share your sort of doubts that that is the answer. You probably talk to some Silicon Valley libertarians or something and they'll say, or tech folks, and they'll say, well, universal basic income.

I think I believe and I think the president believes there's a kind of dignity that work brings and doesn't have to be paid work, but there needs to be something that people do each day that gives them meaning overall. In so far as what you were saying is like you have a discomfort with where this is going on the labor side. Speaking for myself, I share that. I guess I don't know the shape of it.

I think I believe and I think the president believes there's a kind of dignity that work brings and doesn't have to be paid work, but there needs to be something that people do each day that gives them meaning overall. In so far as what you were saying is like you have a discomfort with where this is going on the labor side. Speaking for myself, I share that. I guess I don't know the shape of it.

Well, you know, we definitely didn't have Claude write up a brief because we had to get over government use of AI. See, but that's like itself slightly damning. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Ezra, I agree that the government has to be more forward-leaning on basically all of these dimensions. It was my job to push the government to do that.

Well, you know, we definitely didn't have Claude write up a brief because we had to get over government use of AI. See, but that's like itself slightly damning. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Ezra, I agree that the government has to be more forward-leaning on basically all of these dimensions. It was my job to push the government to do that.

And I think on things like government use of AI, we made some progress. So I don't think anyone from the Biden administration, less of all me, is coming out and saying, we solved it.

And I think on things like government use of AI, we made some progress. So I don't think anyone from the Biden administration, less of all me, is coming out and saying, we solved it.