Ben Harnwell

That's right, Stephen. In fact, I could follow off your earlier question about how the difference of Christmas is approached in terms of atmosphere and culture between Rome and then London and Paris. And that's really the point of it. I think here there is still a residue left in Italy. It's a residue, but it's still left. Like Christmas is fundamentally a religious festival.

Whereas in England, it's wholly a sentimental thing, a cultural stroke sentimental thing. There's no focus on Jesus Christ. There's no focus on his nativity. There's no focus on the hope and joy that Christ's birth brings to the world. It's just a purely pagan thing.

festival of indulgence in the UK. And one of the reasons, you know, one of the reasons is that's because of the absolute implosion of the Church of England, the Anglican Communion, the head of the, the lead church of the Anglican Communion over the last century. It's been, it's been secularized internally and now is acting as a secularizing force across wider British society. Don't forget that in the, we, unlike the United States in England, we do have

an established church. You have bishops that automatically, by virtue of being bishops of certain dioceses, have seats in the legislature, in the House of Lords, automatically. That is what having an established church is. And it's been a secularizing force. That is why, Steve, many of us, me, you, many of us,

um are trying that our best from the platform that the holy spirit has given us to stop the catholic church walking in the same secularizing direction because we don't want sort of italy for example to follow the uk france

Belgium, the Netherlands, you know, you list the European countries where the overwhelming religious presence in those countries is Islam. That's the supernatural force that is followed in those countries. And Christianity is sidelined. Now, if you come back later on this, because I know we're going to talk about the influence that

every day i get up when i read when i go and do my religious news one after the other more bizarre news comes from the church of england how did that happen question steve but i would answer it by saying if you showed the church of england in the 800 1800s

to the Protestant martyrs of the Reformation, they would be horrified because they would say this is not a Christian church whatsoever. The thing is, the reason why your question has sense, has moral force, is because where we are today compared to the Victorian era is even more of a collapse. I would say that 1800 England, Steve, was already well on the way

uh you had a sense of piety and a christian morality but here's the point you can't nourish that if the supernatural faith and is the foundation for that morality

So this is fundamentally, I would suggest, a problem with the Enlightenment itself, is that it tried to arrive at the same moral foundation that Christianity provided, but without the supernatural framework for it. It was a false attempt, I think, to arrive at morality using reason alone, and it doesn't work.

That's why God fundamentally is the ultimate arbiter, as he should be. And the reason why, you know, when did Gerald Manley Hopkins, who referred to the receding roar, the tide going out, and that was the sense of religious faith in England, that was the Victorian era, right?

The issue is that since the Reformation, really, the sense of the supernatural origin of Christianity has been like a spring winding down. And what we see today is when the spring is totally expanded and has nothing left to give. If you want to return to a sense of Christian morality,

then and that's not a sense of just that's not a sound not my judgmentalism i'm talking about the the morality that arises out of christian ethics you need to have you need to nurture the the supernatural belief that jesus christ is god who was born incarnate to the salvation of man at the bottom of it because if you don't have that

then christian sentiment and christian morality isn't worth anything and that's what you see today we're no longer a post-christian west we're pre-islamic west and that's what we're trying to stop wow hang on to that uh ben we're gonna come back to you at the vatican powerful folks this is the reason we're doing this event down on 9 january we'll have more details about 9 uh 9 january in texas

Well, because the whole world will be watching to see what he says, and he knows that, and they know that. So these words, both in his mass this evening, at the Christmas mass at 10pm local time here, Rome time, but also his blessing tomorrow midday at noon, the Orbi, to the church and to the world, to the city and the world, excuse me. Both of those are events in which he will make

in a very subtle way, or not so subtle way, some of his priorities clearly known. These were big opportunities that his late unlamented predecessor, Pope Francis, always used to push his favorite political projects. For example, his support of the invasion in first place. We'll look at Leo. We'll see what he says. We'll no doubt digest it.

Next week, Steve, I'll say this, though. You might not get the full frontal Marxism of Pope Francis, but you're not going to get pure Milton Friedman either. He's going to be doing what he always does in his subtle way, which is continuing the revolution.

of Bergoglio, of Pope Francis, but in a way that it beds down amongst the church, rather than generating opposition and rebellion, which was what Francis was generating, simply because Francis was crazy, pathologically crazy, and he couldn't help rub people up the wrong way, even his own natural supporters. He just rubbed everyone up, and there was a huge global...

sigh of relief when he died uh leo is a more intelligent more subtle person i say this constantly therefore more dangerous so he's gonna use his opportunity

There'll be obviously the standard Christian bromides, the standard Christian platitudes, obviously, because it's Christmas, but in a mix amongst that there'll be the political message too, the secular political message too, of which the institutional Catholic Church is handmaiden.