Ben Mandelker

And then... By the way, I just want to say, as a student of Love Island and various other TV shows, um...

If you're the second one in, it's not even a Love Island thing.

This is actually something we've observed many times than Real Housewives.

If two people have done something shitty together that affects a third person, the second person to have the conversation about it is the villain because you're too late.

So even if they're both equally complicit and equally contrite, if you're conversation number two, you're going to get hit with a shit stick.

Think about Real Housewives of Orange County when, what was it?

It was that Heather and Emily had both said that they don't trust Tamara anymore.

So Emily tells Tamara this first, like, I just want you to know I'm just being honest with you.

I said, I don't trust you.

And then Heather's like, I don't trust you.

But Heather was the one who Tamara got mad at the most because Heather told Tamara second.

So in this case, you have Joe.

If Kizzy had gone to be first, I guarantee I don't guarantee.

But I think that Joe would be in a lot more shit than Kizzy is.

And the lesson is don't let someone go on the apology tour before you.

you have to be first because the first one gets like the, um, gets the badge of being honest and forthright.

Like they came forward first and the other one doesn't get that credit.

If anything, it's like, Oh, well you only said something.

Cause the first person said something, even if it was prearranged as it actually was, they told, I think Asia told Kizzy or someone told Kizzy, listen, let Joe do have the conversation first.

Then you have the conversation, but then, and I'm not standing up for Kizzy, but I'm just saying it's sort of funny.