Ben Orlando

Cause it's like the, the, the mental and emotional, uh, uh, resilience.

Is that what it is that like, because.

Yeah, Wakefield was a first baseman.

He was going to get cut from the Pirates.

And then I think it was a coach who saw him just messing around with the knuckleball and was like, hey,

You might be able to do this.

And really, this is your only shot and staying if you can figure this out.

And he did.

Yeah.

And Dickie, I think he trained with Phil Necro.

But it's like one of the problems too is then you have very few people who can help teach it.

Like as a pitcher, if you're struggling in a game, you can't turn to a regular pitching coach because, you know, it's so different.

But, you know, as it's dying out, there are very few people to teach it and help you with it.

And so it's getting even more obscure.

Yeah.

Well, coming back to... So the book, I had this idea in mind and then I thought, well, you know, I think at the time I had done an episode, there's this...

female pitcher and i can't remember her name who struck out babe ruth and lou garrig in one game and it's really controversial because people are like well were they part of it like was it a gimmick and like they're they're they're both sides of that but and she wasn't exactly a knuckleball pitcher but it kind of fed this idea it's like well why not now why why can't this be possible and

it's again, it's part of this huge conversation.

Like, well, we don't know if it's possible.

And we don't really see that because women grow up playing softball.