Ben Orlando

And, um, so it was a slow, gradual process.

And I think, you know, that's true in therapy generally, like people come in with a crisis

And the truth is it takes a long time to change 20, 30, 40, 50 years of wiring, you know?

So that's, that's, that's how I got kind of here with my wife.

Um, anyways.

Yeah.

So that's what you've found.

Yeah.

Well, and it sounds like you're, you're still like super connected to your wife.

after your baby came along?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's it is.

Yeah, it is amazing.

It's like, ideally we're all doing the work on ourselves so that we're in the best place possible.

But I mean, that wasn't the case with me.

Like I was, I was in a good enough place that my wife saw me, you know, she saw a potential for, you know, what I could be.

Um, but I was still a long ways off.

And so it, it,

I've found and like I'm believing this more and more the connection is so important and you don't have to have a lot of connections but if you have you know a few really good connections and you're able to be open then you don't have to keep things inside because you're suffering alone and you don't get those insights either if you're trying to work things out