Ben Rhodes

So like, look, the ass kissing is annoying.

The shot at Obama is annoying, but whatever.

That's like, how do you talk to Trump?

I don't care.

But the thing that's interesting here, Ben, is like in the past when I've talked to Iranians about Pahlavi, they say this guy's a clown.

Like no one cares what he thinks in Iran.

Like no one wants him back leading Iran.

But, you know, last week Pahlavi called on protesters to demonstrate at specific times.

And it seems like...

maybe hundreds of thousands of them listened, or at least he timed those calls well because he knew people were going to go out.

I've also heard an analyst suggest that these were mostly young people who don't know about the Shah, don't know the history, don't know the corruption or the human rights abuses.

But Axios reported that Steve Witkoff secretly met with Pahlavi over the weekend.

Later in my conversation with Jason, you'll hear

that Jason is skeptical that Pahlavi or anyone outside of Iran could assume the mantle and take over.

But in 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini was in exile in France before he returned to Iran to lead the Iranian revolution.

So I guess there's some precedent here, but I don't know what to think.

There's a hilarious sitcom getting set up here.

Yeah, Maduro's over there.

There's a lot of what about.

Yeah.