Ben Rhodes

That is crystal clear.

But nor do they want to be the last victims, as you see this kind of period of improvement take place.

At the same time, in Munich, Rubio said, look, if the government shows signs of an opening in the economy and opens its hand a little bit, then we'll interpret that positively.

So I don't know that there's also alignment between that.

Rubio, knowing what the president is prepared to kind of dedicate to this effort, it's not the same as Venezuela.

There's no oil, right?

So what's President Trump's interest in this?

That's an open question.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is, is there a leadership that's adept enough to manage this on the Cuban side?

And will it be interpreted the right way on the U.S.

side that will they take yes for an answer when yes shows up?

And that's that's a that's an open question.

And in the meantime, you're going to have all the consequences of that being felt and borne by the population in Cuba.

Yeah, look, I mean, and I think that's the that's the real issue.

And a lot of that is overlooked.

I mean, I think people are there's not enough sort of understanding of what that actually means for like ordinary people who, in theory, are the ones who are trying to help.

All right.

Talk soon.

Welcome back to Pod Save the World.

I'm Ben Rhodes.