Ben Rhodes

What did you think of AOC?

And what did you think of kind of the way in which the Democrats seem to be groping for not just the person for 2028, but a message that can resonate on the world stage?

Yeah, they were definitely the two people that the Europeans were interested in.

And in a strange way, I mean, it's super early, but they feel like the two most interesting people to be watching now.

You're right about Gaza.

And I mean, to me, it's not just Gaza.

as important as the issue is, and we're about to talk about Gaza and the West Bank, it's also, that is the litmus test to me as to whether you have any morality in your foreign policy.

Correct.

You can't carve out a genocide.

You can't say we're for a rules-based order, but we will arm a government committing genocide over here.

Okay, Eamon, let's turn to the occupied West Bank, where Netanyahu's far-right coalition government has moved to expand and solidify Israeli control and really squeeze the West Bank.

And let's be clear, the goal here is not subtle.

We had the finance minister, Smotrich, who's usually the id of this right-wing government, say about these recent steps, we are deepening our roots in all parts of the land of Israel.

And he sees West Bank as part of Israel.

And we are burying the idea of a Palestinian state.

So this is not subtle.

I want to go through these moves and then ask you about them.

And they may sound a little bureaucratic and the press are often described as administrative, even though they're really about annexation of other people's land.

And cumulatively, they're just destroying what is ever left of the idea of the Palestinian state.

So first, to give people some context.