Bill Kristol

Is it going to confirm my point?

The Wall Street Journal is more like, they might hurt them in 2026, so they probably should cut it out.

But I mean, if you actually want to be restrictionist on immigration, which I don't, but I mean, you need to be very tough on this.

If this is the price to be paid, and there are scholars who've written about one of the cases against

the kind of mass deportation type efforts, is that inevitably it brings these civil liberties to abuses.

You can't do mass deportation without it.

Various scholars have made these points based on studies in a whole bunch of different countries.

But if you want to claim that you can do it, you've got to be tough on these abuses, right?

It's sort of like when we defended, when I was a defender of the Vietnam War, even I'm not that old, of the Iraq War, of the Iraq War.

You know, I was appalled by Abu Ghraib and all these things.

I was genuinely appalled.

It wasn't like a matter of tactics.

But also, if you wanted to be a defender of the war, you couldn't be acquiescent in the excesses of the war crimes that happened.

You had to be tough on it.

And to be fair, the Bush administration was once they found out about these things, mostly, I think.

And the military itself was.

The military understood this.

There's zero of that.

I mean, zero of that in ICE and Border Patrol.

No pretense even.