Bill Thompson

So the other thing being, if you're building on the Android open source project, that means...

The code that you're using as the engine, let's just call it that, of your phone is examinable by the public.

So you're relying on Android to publish these updates to the phone, and you're relying on those things to be as good as possible.

Now, you might harden it some more, but as long as the code is out there, it can always be mucked with.

As long as people have to interact with the device and type, and you have to see what you're typing...

a phone's going to be, it's going to have Swiss cheese.

So when people say something is unhackable, as you said, that's just not true.

Yeah, we talked about it quite a bit.

Like I said, great guy, done lots of great things for the country.

And it's just, if they had just said something along the lines of, it's hackable as any phone is hackable, because by virtue of you having to interact with it, it's hackable.

If I came up with an app that had a, look at the TikTok terms of service on the first TikTok.

With those terms of services, I will own your phone.

And I'm not saying you can install TikTok on his phone.

But what I'm saying is, by virtue that you have to interact with the phone and see what you're doing and type passwords, and you've got those kinds of terms of service, I could easily put a keylogger in that.

And now I know your signal password or your signal pin.

Or you're going to China, so I stop you in secondary.

And while you're in secondary, I've got a CCTV on you, and you unlock your phone.

Now I know how to unlock your phone.

Now I'm going to lock you up in secondary at customs in China or in Canada, and I'm going to separate you from your phone, and I've seen you unlock it.

Well, now I'm going to get in there with NCASE, or I'm going to get in there with FTK, or I'm going to get in there with Celebrite, and I'm going to dump your phone.