Brendan O'Connor

That was the biggest moment you could throw a tantrum.

That's right.

People still remember the things that neighbours did to neighbours.

And I'd say, well, you're not getting the magazine now because you threw the tantrum when they're in the car and they're calming down.

and say that that didn't get you the magazine.

It's not getting you the magazine because you threw the tantrum next week.

You would have got it next week, but except that behaviour now, it's not getting it next week.

I think you were more hopeful as well about the idea of empathy as being the bridge here and back to, I suppose, those moments of connection where we transcend ourselves.

And maybe if we see it the week after that, you might get the magazine there.

So you're just like, it's not rigid.

It's not automatic.

Exactly.

And that's really important for kids when you're setting boundaries.

You're less hopeful about that now, are you?

They'll break them, allow them to break them, but bring it back into place.

And language matters.

When you say you're never going out again, you're never going on your device, you know, all this, how can you do that to your child?

And then your language is meaningless.

And can you understand MAGA people and Trump supporters?

A really healthy relationship.