Brittany Luce

And Kai Wright, a journalist and host for The Guardian, who has been writing about sexual politics for the last 30 years.

I am so happy to have you both.

Hello, hello.

I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.

Today, we're going to talk about men on the down low.

So who are the first people using this term on the down low, and what kind of person were they describing?

Hello.

Yes.

Like if you're getting information you weren't supposed to have, maybe if someone were to buy books.

boosted goods, let's say.

On the low.

On the DL, exactly.

Yeah.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, it sounds to me like being DL is distinct from being discreet.

Or closeted, yeah.

Hmm.

Got it.

So just to, again, make sure we're on the same page, DL men might have sex with other men, but do not identify as gay.

Why did that distinction of having sex with men but not being gay, why did that matter to people?

Which was proven to be a large misconception.