Brittany Luce

I could see a way, given everything you've just laid out, that they might look disenfranchised.

at that Trump table, right, where, as you say, if you agree with him or if you agree with his doctrine, then you may possibly be able to get a seat at the table if you get enough visibility.

Yeah, that might feel welcoming.

That might make you feel seen.

That is, I'm sorry, a lot of things are adding up as I'm talking to you.

Russell, I don't think I'm the only one getting whiplash when I see these examples in the news, examples like Jesus Ochoa and Raimundo Gutierrez, two Customs and Border Patrol agents accused of shooting Alex Preti in Minneapolis.

They seem to have Spanish names, which feels ironic given how there are so many examples of CBP agents targeting Latino communities.

I

How do you process these moments when they come across your feeds?

That's very, very important context that I'm sure a lot of our listeners who do live in that part of the country are already aware of.

And other folks like me who are, in my specific case, from the North and now live in New York City, that's not something that I interact with on a regular basis.

Do you think that this is what many people had in mind when they hoped for more diverse DHS?

Is this what people maybe had in mind?

It sounds like many American institutions born of deeply racist roots, they sometimes have trouble outgrowing their foundations in practice, I suppose.

You've taken us on a journey of so many reasons why this dynamic persists, but many people will still find it jarring, I think.

How do you suggest we consider these moments when we see them in our feeds or even in our neighborhoods?

Russell, I appreciate this conversation so much.

I'm really grateful to have so much perspective on how we've arrived at this moment right now.

So thank you so much.

That was Russell Contreras, senior race and justice reporter at Axios.