Caitlin Dickerson

I mean, he's at the same time very attached to his immigration enforcement agenda, like we discussed, because he believes it's the root of his popularity.

But he also realizes that it's the center of why people are critical of him.

And so I do anticipate a shift.

And what I don't know is how big it's going to be or how long it's going to last.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Tom Homan is a longtime leader in ICE, whereas Bovino comes from the Border Patrol.

And ICE is our law enforcement agency that carries out immigration enforcement in the interior of the country.

I think that's important because it's an entirely different beast when you're carrying out arrests in American cities, when you're interacting with American citizens.

People who have more legal rights and protections than those who are trying to cross the border for the first time and who are just generally more sensitive to deal with.

All of that is stuff that Homan is intimately familiar with.

So I think there's a big change there.

I mean, he's a longtime leader in D.C.

of immigration enforcement organizations.

operations across Democratic and Republican administrations, whereas Bovino was really kind of a fringe character in the Border Patrol until he was elevated under Trump.

And so to a certain extent, I think the administration is trying to bring forward somebody who has experience talking to the national press.

And who is maybe they're trying to frame as a sort of moderating figure.

But when we get into his background, I think there's a lot of evidence to push back against that when it comes to Holman's actual record.

Hard for me to see it that way, Scott, because I've spent years reporting on Tom Homan.

I know him well.