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Cari Cesarotti

👤 Person
424 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

Um, but now, now that you can attach the word death ray or death circle to that, people are like, Oh my God, neutrinos. Um, so yeah, the, the, the physics behind it is that yes, neutrinos that are more energetic will want to interact more. Um, and so we haven't had to worry about this in the past because we've never been producing TV neutrinos in a large quantity. Um,

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

Um, but now, now that you can attach the word death ray or death circle to that, people are like, Oh my God, neutrinos. Um, so yeah, the, the, the physics behind it is that yes, neutrinos that are more energetic will want to interact more. Um, and so we haven't had to worry about this in the past because we've never been producing TV neutrinos in a large quantity. Um,

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

The worry that we would have is not that neutrino rays zap a cow and then suddenly it's raining steak. That's not quite the picture. But what can happen is that all of these neutrinos that are coming off from your muon being circulated is they'll just travel in a straight line. They'll escape the experiment and they'll travel through dirt, right? Like they can just go through dirt.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

The worry that we would have is not that neutrino rays zap a cow and then suddenly it's raining steak. That's not quite the picture. But what can happen is that all of these neutrinos that are coming off from your muon being circulated is they'll just travel in a straight line. They'll escape the experiment and they'll travel through dirt, right? Like they can just go through dirt.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

And if they're high enough energy, they might interact with some atom in the dirt and they could excite the atom and then that could decay. So it's the radioactivity of neutrinos activating atoms in the ground. So if this stuff is either sufficiently underground or we have ways of absorbing the neutrinos before they permeate too far or something, again, this is accelerators.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

And if they're high enough energy, they might interact with some atom in the dirt and they could excite the atom and then that could decay. So it's the radioactivity of neutrinos activating atoms in the ground. So if this stuff is either sufficiently underground or we have ways of absorbing the neutrinos before they permeate too far or something, again, this is accelerators.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

Accelerator physicists are really, really great people that think of all kinds of wacky stuff that I would never have thought was reasonable. And this is the scientific term. You can wiggle the beam. And then when you do that, it's a diffuse enough beam that you're not activating any one patch of ground too much.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

Accelerator physicists are really, really great people that think of all kinds of wacky stuff that I would never have thought was reasonable. And this is the scientific term. You can wiggle the beam. And then when you do that, it's a diffuse enough beam that you're not activating any one patch of ground too much.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

And so the overall radiation dosage, I hate to be the person to tell you this if you don't know it, but you're always being irradiated. There are always things irradiating you. You just need a sufficiently small dose to not notice. So if you can do that, then it is in fact well below any sort of legal limit and dangerous limit that you might be approaching.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

And so the overall radiation dosage, I hate to be the person to tell you this if you don't know it, but you're always being irradiated. There are always things irradiating you. You just need a sufficiently small dose to not notice. So if you can do that, then it is in fact well below any sort of legal limit and dangerous limit that you might be approaching.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

Yeah, just wiggle it. Yeah.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

Yeah, just wiggle it. Yeah.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

The wiggles.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

The wiggles.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

Yeah, I mean, failure is possible at every step. And I actually just got back from Fermilab yesterday to attend this really interesting workshop where people sort of get together and we're talking about what we need to make this happen. And someone showed this really beautiful table of basically all the ways in which we could fail and what impact that would have on the net collisions.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

Yeah, I mean, failure is possible at every step. And I actually just got back from Fermilab yesterday to attend this really interesting workshop where people sort of get together and we're talking about what we need to make this happen. And someone showed this really beautiful table of basically all the ways in which we could fail and what impact that would have on the net collisions.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

And so, yeah, the steps of failure are first, we don't produce enough muons. So this targetry thing doesn't work. We melt the target by just dumping constant protons on it. That could fail. Cooling it could fail. We might not be able to, in fact, cool it quick enough to actually have a sufficiently high, a dense enough muon beam to get any sort of reasonable number of collisions out.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

And so, yeah, the steps of failure are first, we don't produce enough muons. So this targetry thing doesn't work. We melt the target by just dumping constant protons on it. That could fail. Cooling it could fail. We might not be able to, in fact, cool it quick enough to actually have a sufficiently high, a dense enough muon beam to get any sort of reasonable number of collisions out.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

So the cooling is by far the thing that could take us out the most. And that's the thing that we need to prove works before we actually make any sort of big steps to making the full-scale collider. So when people say muon collider R&D, basically we're talking about showing that this cooling and acceleration can happen.

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas
289 | Cari Cesarotti on the Next Generation of Particle Experiments

So the cooling is by far the thing that could take us out the most. And that's the thing that we need to prove works before we actually make any sort of big steps to making the full-scale collider. So when people say muon collider R&D, basically we're talking about showing that this cooling and acceleration can happen.