Caroline Lucas

speaker

487 appearances 6 recordings 1 series first heard Jul 2026 last heard 13 Aug

Caroline Lucas’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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recordings per month · last 12 months

Recordings per month over the last 12 months — 6 in all, peaking in Jul 2026 with 4.

Appearances

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The Rest Is Politics · The Secret Security Threat The Government Don’t Want Us To Know · 16 Jul 2026 podcast

And so my question to you is, why do you think they tried to do that?

Why is that irrational?

You say that, but I was really struck by something that I read, which was that there was a big launch planned of this report.

So the intention was that this report was going to be made public.

In fact, I've heard…

I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that the king was on standby to come along and launch this report.

So it was going to be made public, and then it wasn't, which I think in some ways pushes back a bit on the idea that none of these reports ever get published anyway, so why are we making such a fuss?

So to help unpack the wider geopolitical fallout from climate breakdown and nature loss, I'm joined now by Arthur Snell, a former diplomat and security expert with over 30 years experience in conflict zones and fragile states, including Iraq, Afghanistan, and Yemen.

He's an associate fellow of RUSI, the Royal United Services Institute, a former British ambassador, and the author, I have to say, of a really brilliant new book, Elemental, The New Geography of Climate Change and How We Survive It.

So, Arthur, welcome.

I wonder if you could start by sharing your perspective on the relationship between climate and nature breakdown on one hand and national security in the other.

Because I was really struck in your book how you challenged the kind of oversimplistic analysis that might suggest that certain wars were caused by an overheating planet.

But at the same time, you make the case that climate is always there acting as a catalyst or an amplifier of risk.

You paint a very vivid picture in your book of a world in flux, of climate breakdown driving global instability, superpowers forced to confront new vulnerabilities, other countries suddenly finding their natural resources unexpectedly scarce.

in demand from habitable land to critical minerals.

The pace of change is what's putting real pressure on what remains of the rules-based international order.

I think you've called this a new age of empire.

I wonder if you could unpack a bit more about what you mean by that.

I mean, it's interesting talking about Trump and climate denialism because in a way it kind of sums up a real trend that we're seeing across the world whereby populists and populist parties are really

weaponizing climate action.

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