Caroline O'Donoghue
Appearances
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh. Okay, so we've got Jane, who's a widow, and we've got Celeste, who's a divorcee. Glamorous bunch. Exactly. Okay. Okay.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Thank you so much for that, by the way, because I would not have guessed what 81 degrees Fahrenheit was at all. I really appreciate the international edit here. 27 degrees Celsius.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
That's fucking crazy. That's mad.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
No, I believe it is endemic to something else in Celeste's personality that is like unfixable, possibly. Yeah. I feel like, you know, if she's one of these people who like in all aspects of their shared life together, less comfort is the most important thing, then maybe that's what destroyed their relationship.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And like, it really hits me that the phrase strong oral tradition is just a sort of a euphemism
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
We're so early in the story and this is so nuts. I know.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Yeah, yeah. And obviously, like, the temperature thing is like a complete lie. And, you know, Celeste is gay and I'm happy for her.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
I think about this an awful lot. Ireland never really had an industrial revolution.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh, OK. So it's giving kind of like a 90s art gallery type of woman.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
As in like she's got a fig tree or something? Or is she proud of it?
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
So going back to the turn of the 19th century. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Hang on. Isn't there something quite specific about the way figs are made that's quite disgusting, right? Like there's this famous, it's like flies, wasps lay eggs and die in there or some shit. It's like really gross. It's like you never want to eat anything with figs in it again after you've heard it. Not because it's cruel, but more because it's gross.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
about figs they do look like balls because the fig is split in half and it's kind of round they look like balls they're big and gold they're a statement on gender and they are the knowledge of good and evil
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
The man she's divorced. Yes. Because if he's not, doesn't like his house hot enough. Yes.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Let me bring you back to the spinning, Jenny. Oh my God. You know, in England and America and Germany, all these different countries, there was like this moment where industrial action happened and where like all kind of populations just became into cities and all that kind of stuff. That never really happened in Ireland. Ireland was always just like, your workplace is your back garden. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Is this all kind of feeding into as well the kind of the yuppification of this neighborhood that these are like, like Jane is like, I've raised my family here and like... They're not my cares and concerns. They're your weird modern art divorce problem. Yes, exactly.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
such an important quality a neighbour I now understand your earlier thing because like I definitely I do have that thing where there's these two friends and you think one of them is just a stunner and you love hanging out with her and the other one you're like what and so then you do invent in your head you're like oh there must be some kind of fairy bargain in place or like perhaps yes charitable work going on yeah
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And there's no entertainment of any kind except for you can walk six miles in the dark to your friend's house to talk shit. And I think that's where all the music stuff comes from. And that's where all this storytelling thing comes from. It really comes from a lack of anything else to do. Like the... The two penny strip show is not coming to Ireland. The Nickelodeon is not coming to Ireland.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
She's a feckless woman. I don't think she's going to do that. I think she's self-involved and she's going to be negligent in her duties.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Yeah, I buy it very frequently and I watch it wilt almost instantly. If you don't use that whole packet up in the day, it's gone. It goes black.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Can I just say this is far too much effort for an incredibly cheap supermarket plant. Do you mean like. It's not worth it.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh, this is such a tough one. It's a real Sophie's choice because if she lets it die, then this friendship that she despises will be over, probably. And then Muffy can be her main friend. However, she loves Muffy and she doesn't want her thing to die. However, Celeste sucks and will definitely take the credit for the living basil. Yes. But Jane's too classy to say that was me watering it.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
So are you doing it or no? Where did you end up? Me, myself, I hate to garden. I would watch it die. No. And I'm also full of spite. And I would just like, now Muffy's my friend.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
You know what? I would say to Celeste, listen, the plants are dying. I believe this is your... You need to go water them. I believe this is your remit, Celeste. Celeste.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Yeah, I mean, if it was a cat not being fed or a dog not being walked, that would be totally different. Right. But ultimately, I don't give a fuck about herbs.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
What comes to Ireland is like going to your friend's house and telling them a story you heard off somebody else who heard it off a cow, you know? You kind of see that as well with Irish people where it's like they never let the truth get in the way of a good story either. So tales be getting told.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Uh, Hey, babe, comma, just checking. Just got back from the trip. Noticed that the herb garden didn't seem to get much of a look in this summer. Ooh. I thought you were supposed to water it. Did something happen? No X at the end.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Hi. Yeah. Like, Muffy's back. Isn't it great? Ain't life grand? How was her trip? I haven't had a chance to catch up with her yet. But you see her all the time.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Now I'm like, how are Muffy and Celeste friends?
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Her attention was on the wrong thing. She shouldn't have been plodding about the herb garden. She should have been plodding with the husband about destroying the figs. Exactly. You've got to get it into some kind of metal melter. Yeah, yeah. Smelt the figs. It's the only thing to be done. Yeah, exactly.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh, my fucking God. That's incredible.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh, my God. You devious bitch, Muffy.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh, that's such a good question. So The Rachel Incident is a book about gossip in many ways. So in the opening chapter, this character runs into somebody from her hometown years and years after she's left and is kind of reminded of this piece of gossip that existed about her in her hometown that wasn't true, but she had to live her life as though it were. But I definitely think that...
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Pick me, choose me, give Fig to me. Yeah. Oh, my God. But this really does prove that like Jane was Muffy's true friend all along. Because like this is what Jane would do. Like they're both fueled by spite and nice gardening. Like that's a hot man. That's what they share. Yes.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
No, you didn't, you dumb bitch. No, you did not.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh my God, that's so fucking evil.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Uh-huh. Oh my God. To steal another woman's fig. And maybe this was the expression on gender all along, you know? Wow. That really makes you think. Makes you think.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
It feels like Jane is ready to graduate to that part of her life where she is on various social media platforms all day, every day. So now is the time to invest, I think.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
That is a frequent thing of like when someone tells you a piece of gossip and then the first thing that you think about is like, how much of this can I change and then put into a novel? And I always do feel as well that like you're far more likely to put to...
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Motherfucking hell. Wow. Wow. I really thought that the story was just going to end on Muffy bought the figs. But there's a whole other thing going on now.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh my God, she spent like a year and a half not having that fig. And she was also given a deadline to buy the fig. I know. Like hawk one of your bangles and just, you know, just buy the fig back. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Like herbs are so easy to buy at the supermarket. Like even I think Muffy's gone too far on this one. Yeah. Before I was like team Muffy, boo Celeste. And now I just think both these ladies are tapped in the head.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
So like, it seems like she's fallen out of contact with both of these women and her wider neighborhood. So I'm like, what's, why isn't, yeah. Is Jane catching some flack that she doesn't even know she's catching?
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
adopt a situation or a character that you know very little about kind of thing so you can sort of fill in the gaps in your head there has to be like a gap where intrigue can develop naturally where you're just like you know because if I if I know my friend and all of her problems and everything about her then then my brain isn't doing that natural thing where it fills in the gap with sort of interesting lies um and so it's never gonna happen yeah um did you bring a gossip for me
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Great. I'm going to the relaunch of an herb garden tomorrow. There was a time when it used to be shocking to be invited to a dog's birthday party. And this is so like several rungs below that.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Yes. Okay. So she has, not only has she bought these figs out from under her former best friend who did not tend her herb garden correctly or even at all. Yes. She has caught flack from the artist's widow and now she is trying to establish an art collecting brand in order to sort of like legitimize the fact that she's stolen another woman's figs. Bingo.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
and he loved the figs and then she became fixated she's like what's like a year over a year she's been just like banging on about these figs and how much she loves them and how it is her one desire to get them back and she didn't even like them that much yes Muffy and Jane and Jane's granddaughter are all like what
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
I did bring a bit of gossip for you. So, you know, I live in London, which is a place where people are so gossipy and every single person in London has a story about either the royal family or Mattie Healy.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh, shit. It was never about the figs. Holy crap. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So then how was Celeste trying to give $50,000 to Muffy when she doesn't have that kind of money?
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Oh, wow. What a tale. Fuck me. That's so good.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
I honestly just feel like an incredible magic trick has been pulled on me in that I was looking in the wrong place the whole time. And I thought this was a story of just two rich bitches who had nothing else to do, who were being petty and funny. But there's so much more. It's Charles is broke. He's flat broke. And so is Celeste. And they're trying to maintain this weird fucking...
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
It's very Desperate Housewives. It's very like turn of the century Desperate Housewives.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Yes. And the idea of the one sapphire in the family. It's so crazy. And they got the artist's widow involved. That poor woman is grieving.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
I love Jane still. All these other people. Yeah. I don't know. I think, yeah, Jane should sort of have some kind of a tarot affair with the hot boyfriend because I don't like the idea of him being caught up in this. I think he's too pure.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
What side of the class divide are they on in the kind of London social person? And so obviously I can't repeat any of that gossip here because I'll be hung. But so this is a story that I heard at a wedding and I loved it so much. So let me see if I can relay it to you here. Please.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And she can buy all the things she likes. What a story. So she's just like, I've had it with these hoes. Bye. Like, fuck.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
God, and those women are just still out there somewhere scheming. You know what I mean? Yes. I do think there are people in this world who like, they can't live unless there's a scheme going. You know, they're like running some kind of private con within their whole life. But to them, it's not even a con. It's just some kind of weird form of contorted justice.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
They just think they just deserve this thing. It's so fucked up. Right.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
I'm so honored. I really think this is up there. If there was a normal gossip, like a MoMA for normal gossip. Power rankings. Yeah, the Noga or whatever. If there was a museum, there would be that chair with the vagina print on it, the bird lamp, and this fig. And I feel so proud to be part of it. Wow.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Okay, so I meet this girl at a wedding and even as I met her, she seemed like a kind of a recently recovered shy person, you know? I know exactly what you're talking about. You know what I mean? She's, like, learned the tricks and things and, like, and she's learned how to do it. But you can tell that, like, it's not something that comes, like, super easy to her.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And, like, you could tell with this woman that, like, she was like, oh, she was like, so when I was a teenager, I was super shy. And I was like, yeah, I can guess. And, like, I met her and I was like, immediately I can see that she was, this is, again, filling in the gaps with interesting lies. I can...
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
I could totally see that she was the kind of girl who probably had like two best friends in school, who she's told everything to, but nobody else in her year group knew she existed, you know, kind of thing. Yes. And she's like super studious and just keeps herself to herself and whatever. And in her, I guess what you'd call your senior year in her last year of school, her family moves.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Well, precisely, Kelsey. They're not going to make her make new friends. What they're going to make her do instead is commute. Oh, no. Yeah, I know. Sad. Very sad for our shy girl. Let's just call her Andy. Poor Andy. Poor Andy. She used to live right in the middle of the city with all of her friends somewhere in the north of England. And now she lives in like the fucking countryside. Right.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And like she has to get like a 45 minute long bus every day to go to school. Yeah. So, you know, she's getting up at six. She's getting up in the dark to go to school. She's coming home in the dark. Her senior year, like, sucks. And then one day she is at the bus stop and a car drives up and it is...
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
a boy from her year huh and you know how like every every single year group um has like you know you're you're you're sort of russian nesting doll of popular kids and some of them are popular because they're attractive and some of them are popular because they're attractive and rich and some some of them are popular and this is the the smallest nesting doll in the in the very middle they're rich they're attractive and they're really fucking nice
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
You know those people? Aha, yes. Let's call him, what's your favorite English name? Paul?
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
It's Henry. And not only is Henry like beautiful, nice and rich. He's also like a lord. This is crazy. So Teen Lord pulls up in his Porsche or whatever. And he's like, beep, beep, get in. I know you're you at my school. I might as well drive you in. We're from the same place now. What?
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Yeah. Turns out his like huge country pile is like five minutes from her place, from her like semi-detached like house in the middle of nowhere. And so they, even though she's the shyest girl in the world, and even though he is hot, rich and nice and a lord, they have this relationship their whole senior year where they're just going to school back and forth an hour every day.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
They're slowly building up their conversation and their connection every day and every evening. And then she goes off and she hangs out with her two friends who she loves. And then he goes off with his big gang. And then at the end of the day, they go hang out again in the car. And that's their thing.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And when they're towards the end of the school year, he starts opening up to her about some serious stuff. And among the serious things he opens up to her about is that he is adopted. Oh!
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
he's an adoptive teen lord and like yeah so it's like yeah he's yeah he's not like super public about it but like his family his parents couldn't have kids okay he's very happy but he tells her he's like you know he's on the verge of turning 18 and And I get to find out basically about my stuff, like about my mom and all that kind of stuff. Oh, right. Right. Yeah. And he hasn't told anybody this.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
He's only told shy girl Andy, who he gets the car with every morning. Oh, my God. Then he he goes to the adoption place and he gets his birth mother's name.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And the name is like the most unbelievable general name you could possibly think. half right right it's like it's Sarah Smith it's it's you know right whatever like insert the most common name you've ever thought of here and he sort of like takes a stab at trying to find her or whatever but then he kind of gives up and he feels kind of awkward about it and he just like Yeah, a dozen.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And then school ends. Oh. And then they don't see each other every day anymore. No. And I know. And shy girl Andy is like, I miss my friend. And they're texting quite a bit, but they don't have that routine anymore. Sure. And by the way, they're millennials. So this is like 2008, 2009, I guess. The internet exists. It's becoming a thing.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And so what Andy does is she gets this common ass fucking name.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
and she essentially looks for every sarah smith in england on facebook oh my god and she just goes through and she's like she's a diligent student who's on summer holidays who's graduated high school she's just like going through going through being like hello this is a bit of a strange question but in the late 80s did you give birth to a son and give him up for adoption Did you?
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Because I know him. And anyway, eventually she strikes gold and she finds, like, the Sarah Smith.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
I have no clue. Like, it's nuts to me that this happened. That's wild. At this point, shy girl Andy has a car of her own. And she drives over to his house and she gives him the information. And she logs into her Facebook on his computer and like, there's your mom. Like, there she is. Oh my God.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
I know I know and then and so like him and his mom start connecting or whatever and they set a date to meet or whatever and then the date comes where they're supposed to meet and he's supposed to go to her I'm actually getting chills I'm in a Sheraton in Frankfurt right now and I'm giving myself goosebumps and
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
And so they set a date where he's going to drive over to his mom's house and meet her for the first time. And then he says to shy girl, Andy, will you drive me? Oh, because he doesn't want to want to drive alone. And he doesn't want to go alone. And they're driving and they're not saying a word. It is totally silent in the car.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
and then they get they get to the door and she's she waits in the car and she's like go on you know you know you can go in and then he walks up to the door and then he walks back and he gets back in the car and he says i can't go in without you and then they just he just holds out his hand and they walk up to the mom's house holding hands i love this movie i love this is my favorite movie and kelsey kelsey they're married and they have a baby
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Wow. Many and varied. In case it's not clear to your listeners, I am an Irish person. And there's this whole thing of like, I get to sit on all these amazing literature panels and have people ask me really thoughtful questions about like, what is it with the Irish and storytelling? And to that, and the whole like strong oral tradition thing.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Abso-fucking-lutely, yes. Okay, great. Let's do it.
Normal Gossip
It Was Never About the Figs with Caroline O'Donoghue
Well, yes, because I've lived in London for 13 years and I was a writer that whole time. It's just like you find some place that's barely affordable to live where you can get okay coffee and then you're priced out within usually about two and a half years. And that's, yeah. So I have a lot of experience with this.