Cas Holman

Right?

If you don't leave, you're safe.

But are you safe?

Then you're going to be maybe kind of sad and that's not safe.

Exactly.

Yes.

No, absolutely.

And thank you.

That's kind of the point that I get into in the book is that there's a misconception that free play means no rules at all.

Part of what happens when we are encouraged or allowed to free play as children means that we are in touch with what do I need right now?

What do I want to do right now?

And then we're skilled in going to find it.

And one of the things that I do this a lot as a design professor is help people find their own connection.

I love constraints.

Again, the idea with open-endedness is like no constraints.

It's like, well, you start with no constraints and then you find your own based on what you need.

Or if anything's an option, then everything's an option, which is totally overwhelming and absolutely paralyzing.

So the thing about unstructured play for kids and open-ended play for kids is they learn how to find and make their own structure.

Right.

And also with rigamajig, I talk about it as being open-ended and unstructured, but it's not really.