Chad Rubin

So to me, those are legacy clients that are also non-contractual clients.

Uh, whereas now we have a contractual model on our platform, uh, punching much more upstream.

So that's the first one is you've got your legacy clients that I don't, I don't count as addressable churn.

Got it.

And then, and then you have these like large, you have certain clients on our platform that, uh, sort of maybe should have never been on the platform.

Like maybe they need something that's very, very, very, very special and that we did it in the early days, but we probably wouldn't do it again today.

So just to bring them on the platform.

So addressable churn three to 5%.

That's, I think that's normal.

And I think that's, uh, that's right where we are, but obviously we're working our butts off day in and day out to make sure that we can, uh, even lower that even more.

When you add back expansion revenue, have we reached negative churn?

Uh,

That's a good question.

I have to dig into the numbers a little more.

Okay.

No direct paid spend.

Outside of, we do have an inbound salesperson that manages all the inbound leads that come our way.

And then we also have one outbound that we just activated in September of last year.

So you could technically count that as your CAC.

Do you look at CAC or no?