Charles Duhigg

And I just went back to, I've always had this question, like,

Everyone looked down their nose at MAD and DARE was so popular.

And today MAD is successful and DARE isn't.

And I was just curious, like, why?

And so I started doing reporting and it turned out to be a great way to explain this.

Yeah, no, you're exactly right.

This inclusion is really important.

And it's funny that you mentioned Obama as an organizer, because if you look back to the Obama campaign, the first campaign and the second campaign, which was revolutionary in how they used volunteers.

They got more volunteers to do more outreach than any campaign in history.

And the reason why was because they were very big tent.

I don't know if you remember, but they said if you encounter a voter who's racist, they use the N-word or they say something racist,

don't disagree with them.

Simply say, I totally understand that.

I understand that you feel that, but let me tell you about on economics how Obama feels, right?

It was a big tent in terms of are on the war or on other things, right?

And so what's happened since then, I think, is that within the left, there has become a lot of litmus tests that serve either for virtue signaling or serve for trying to mobilize and show unity around the issues that the left cares about.

But those litmus tests have the...

Effect of excluding many ambivalent members, right?

Many swing voters.

It basically says, look, if you're pro-life, there's really no place for you in the Democratic Party.