Charles Maines

Now, these talks paced out at about four and a half hours. Both sides described them as positive, as serious. They also made clear this was just an initial step towards more negotiations to end the war. They didn't expect to solve it in one day.

Now, these talks paced out at about four and a half hours. Both sides described them as positive, as serious. They also made clear this was just an initial step towards more negotiations to end the war. They didn't expect to solve it in one day.

Now, these talks paced out at about four and a half hours. Both sides described them as positive, as serious. They also made clear this was just an initial step towards more negotiations to end the war. They didn't expect to solve it in one day.

Yeah, no, that's right. Ukraine was not even invited, although both Trump and the Kremlin say Ukraine will be involved in some way at some point. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has warned Kiev won't recognize any deals that are done without Ukraine. And Europe, of course, has been upset about being sidelined, an issue they see as key to European security.

Yeah, no, that's right. Ukraine was not even invited, although both Trump and the Kremlin say Ukraine will be involved in some way at some point. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has warned Kiev won't recognize any deals that are done without Ukraine. And Europe, of course, has been upset about being sidelined, an issue they see as key to European security.

Yeah, no, that's right. Ukraine was not even invited, although both Trump and the Kremlin say Ukraine will be involved in some way at some point. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has warned Kiev won't recognize any deals that are done without Ukraine. And Europe, of course, has been upset about being sidelined, an issue they see as key to European security.

Yet the American delegation, Waltz in particular, pushed back against this idea that somehow Kiev or Europe was being ignored. He said, no, this was just shuttle diplomacy. You talk to different sides and pass on what they have to say.

Yet the American delegation, Waltz in particular, pushed back against this idea that somehow Kiev or Europe was being ignored. He said, no, this was just shuttle diplomacy. You talk to different sides and pass on what they have to say.

Yet the American delegation, Waltz in particular, pushed back against this idea that somehow Kiev or Europe was being ignored. He said, no, this was just shuttle diplomacy. You talk to different sides and pass on what they have to say.

It certainly feels like it's headed that direction. Both sides said they would move forward with plans for a meeting between Trump and Putin. They've now agreed to meet face to face. So by all accounts, Russia's isolation over its actions in Ukraine appear over.

It certainly feels like it's headed that direction. Both sides said they would move forward with plans for a meeting between Trump and Putin. They've now agreed to meet face to face. So by all accounts, Russia's isolation over its actions in Ukraine appear over.

It certainly feels like it's headed that direction. Both sides said they would move forward with plans for a meeting between Trump and Putin. They've now agreed to meet face to face. So by all accounts, Russia's isolation over its actions in Ukraine appear over.

In fact, after the talks, Lavrov spoke about how it wasn't normal for big countries like the US and Russia to not engage as they hadn't during the Biden years. But things were different now. I think it's very useful. So here he says that the talks were useful and for the first time in a long time, Russia felt not just heard, but listened to.

In fact, after the talks, Lavrov spoke about how it wasn't normal for big countries like the US and Russia to not engage as they hadn't during the Biden years. But things were different now. I think it's very useful. So here he says that the talks were useful and for the first time in a long time, Russia felt not just heard, but listened to.

In fact, after the talks, Lavrov spoke about how it wasn't normal for big countries like the US and Russia to not engage as they hadn't during the Biden years. But things were different now. I think it's very useful. So here he says that the talks were useful and for the first time in a long time, Russia felt not just heard, but listened to.

Well, President Trump has said Ukraine must give up both its NATO ambitions and territory to Moscow. These are two key Russian demands that have really fed fears that Ukraine won't have a say in its own future. But Secretary of State Rubio, as we heard in that intro, says he wants a deal acceptable to all parties.

Well, President Trump has said Ukraine must give up both its NATO ambitions and territory to Moscow. These are two key Russian demands that have really fed fears that Ukraine won't have a say in its own future. But Secretary of State Rubio, as we heard in that intro, says he wants a deal acceptable to all parties.

Well, President Trump has said Ukraine must give up both its NATO ambitions and territory to Moscow. These are two key Russian demands that have really fed fears that Ukraine won't have a say in its own future. But Secretary of State Rubio, as we heard in that intro, says he wants a deal acceptable to all parties.

How that works, where borders are drawn, I don't think anybody knows, including Rubio. But there's clearly a concern in Ukraine that while Kiev wants a just peace agreement, Trump just wants peace. And because of that, and because Moscow has the upper hand, both on the battlefield and around the negotiating table, they're nervous.

How that works, where borders are drawn, I don't think anybody knows, including Rubio. But there's clearly a concern in Ukraine that while Kiev wants a just peace agreement, Trump just wants peace. And because of that, and because Moscow has the upper hand, both on the battlefield and around the negotiating table, they're nervous.