Charlie Dent
Appearances
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
I just look at Mike Pence and say, Mike, you know, this isn't helping anything. And then one of the young aides came up to me and I know he'd worked in the House and he said, hey, Mr. Dent, Mr. Dent, why don't you go up to the president privately now as the meeting's breaking up? Just tell him you'll vote for the bill. And I know what his motivation was.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan at that particular moment weren't for the bill either. I think he wanted Trump to blame Meadows and Jordan. But I said, hey, I said to this young guy, hey, you know what? I came here and now I'm an F no now. OK, so I'm going to spend the next 24 hours, find another four or five Republicans to vote against this piece of crap of a bill.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And so the next day they had to pull the bill off the floor. We got a couple of guys to vote against it. And so that was in March of 2017. So the point I'm making is Medicaid was a tough issue then. It's a tougher issue now. Because so many more Republicans now recognize that much of their base is on Medicaid.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And so I think if we couldn't reform Medicaid the way they wanted to then, why do we think we'll be able to do it now? I mean, they might try to stick a work requirement in there. Beyond that, I'm not saying –
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
how they're going to do too many significant changes particularly in the u.s senate the house might pass something but the senate i think is going to be a bit more squeamish they have a lower threshold for pain they feel that you know the house has a higher threshold they'll pass bills that are going to go nowhere uh even though they're very politically damaging which was the case back in 2017 on the repeal replace the bill that the house passed i warned colleagues policy's bad the politics are worse the bill would never be adopted by the senate never in a million years
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And, of course, nothing close to the House bill was even considered in the Senate.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Yeah. And Rand Paul, I think, has said he's against it.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
He's absolutely right on tariffs. You know, he's going to be against reconciliation, not because of the Medicaid changes, because he's got other reasons, but he's certainly right about the tariffs.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Yeah, I mean, for me, look, I feel... You called me a conservative. Some people call me center right or common sense conservative. I mean, moderate, pragmatic, choose your favorite term. But what drove me away was, you know, I always said this wasn't a these these elections with Donald Trump were not about right or left from a policy perspective. I always thought they're about right or wrong.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Well, I think this is where I kind of maybe differ. I mean, if we want to change the party, we have to we have to still kind of stay within it. I do feel strongly about that. And frankly, you know, the Democrats have tremendous opportunities, but they're very much tied to their organized labor base.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And on an issue like tariffs, they just can't make the argument because many of them agree with the policy, the basic policy. They don't like the way Trump's doing it. And I think the Democrats have that challenge. And also, you know, I think we've also seen, too, where the Democrats have struggled. you know, particularly on the border.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
It was clear that the American people, you know, were appalled by, you know, the mayhem at the border during the Biden administration. And they were just too lackadaisical about it for at least the first three years of their administration. It didn't get serious. And it was a very important issue.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
People do believe in the nation's sovereignty and that there should be an orderly system of entrance and exit. And the Democrats just weren't able to speak to it. And I think also, too,
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
You know, and I think where the Democrats also get into trouble, and which I think keeping a lot of Republicans away, is on some of these issues where, you know, they feel like, a lot of Republicans feel like the Democrats might be a little too condescending for them. They speak down to them. Like, for example, you know, and I'm for transgender rights.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
I think, you know, a person should be able to transition and we should, you know, respect that. But, you know, when that situation happened at the University of Pennsylvania where the swimmer transitioned from, you know, male to female, And, you know, broke all the records, you know, blew away everybody at the NCAAs. A lot of people said, you know, that's unfair.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And then they were called transphobic. And they said, well, no, I'm not transphobic. I just have a pair of eyes and ears. And, you know, I think that's unfair. And then I think there are just too many on the left who, you know, just didn't know how to respond appropriately to people who saw things that they questioned and without being ridiculed or told that they're
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
you know, they're a hateful person. And I think this is where the Democrats have to kind of stop listening to this, this fringe base of theirs and start talking like normal people to folks. And I think that's keeping a lot of Republicans away. Cause I think Democrats have some opportunities like Republicans for years.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
I often thought that what the MAGA movement represented in the form of Donald Trump was a particular type of protectionism, isolationism, nativism, at times nihilism, and what I would call a dangerous populism. And it really, it's not particularly ideological. It's really about loyalty to a particular individual. It's not about fidelity to any type of principles.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And I was one of the, I was one of the, I was, well, the last pro-choice Republican in the house when I left, there might be a couple now since Dobbs, but but who actually voted against the 20-week abortion ban. And I voted to fund Planned Parenthood. I was the only one there for a while. And I found that Republicans were not on the right side of issues like that.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
That came into stark relief during their post-Obs. When Roe was overturned, then boy, oh boy, then all of a sudden the politics of that issue changed and Republicans realized that they were on the wrong side of that issue. So Democrats had an opportunity to But that was not the only issue they had.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
They just haven't been able to speak to the economic anxieties of people to the extent they needed to. Like I said, during the Biden administration, there were two Democrats just did not take inflation seriously enough early on. Oh, they said it was transitory when Larry Summers is out there beating the drum, telling him it's an enormous problem. They just didn't do it.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And then I was one of the folks, too, when During the previous race, when it was going to appear that Biden was going to run and Trump was going to run, and I was saying at the time, you know, close to 70% of the voters think one candidate is too old and the other too dangerous. What part of this aren't the parties hearing? You know, especially the Democrats who...
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
No, I was encouraging no labels at the time to try to put together a fusion ticket. And it was frankly, it was the Democrats or at least people aligned with the Democrats who went apoplectic. They said they're going to destroy whoever runs and. And I would say to them, well, you know, there were, I think that one group called Third Way was one of the groups leading this.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And I said, well, you ought to call it Two Way because they only wanted two candidates. I said, you can't, on the one hand, argue that democracy is at risk, that we're going to lose it and then do everything you can to undermine candidates from getting on the ballot. You're trying to, you know, we need less democracy in order to save democracy.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
They said, you know, if there was a third party candidate there, uh, an independent candidate that that would have elected Trump. And I said, well, one, we don't know that. Uh, and two, um, you got a problem with your candidate and you know, what don't you see in this? And they didn't want to hear it until of course that, that debate where Biden faltered badly.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And then, then everybody reckoned, not every, not immediately, but I wrote an op-ed the morning after said that, you know, Biden needs to go. And I got a lot of hate from a lot of Democrats. So we don't need to hear this, that. And then, you know, three weeks later, he was gone. And everybody kind of came to that position.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
My quick view on that, though, was that they weren't looking at states like Texas and Kansas and others where that third party candidate might have harmed Donald Trump significantly. They're only looking at battlegrounds.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
You know, I'm sure they have candidates out there. You know, you're hearing about Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer. Certainly Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania would be quite formidable. I know Josh well, you know, good man. I think that those three are certainly probably top of list. You're hearing Wes Moore, of course, in Maryland. They have an interesting group of candidates.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
I'm not so sure Newsom would be the right one. A California progressive now. He's trying to center himself a bit. You know, Whitmer, I think, has an interesting profile, though. I know she's gotten dinged up a little bit over that White House meeting.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
I think so, too, but... But, you know, I think between Whitmer and Shapiro and Westmore, those are probably the three that jump out at me. There may be some others, but those are the three that are just kind of striking me as who could be inside lane. Of course, now you have to watch that progressive wing. What does AOC do? Does she decide to jump in?
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
She would be a very formidable primary candidate, probably a disastrous general election candidate, but a formidable primary candidate.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
If you were to ask me what kind of person, you know, I kind of view myself as an Edmund Burke type. That if, you know, if we're going to be Republicans, that we should be about incremental change. And we believe in evolutionary systems, not revolutionary systems. We believe in measured statements. We believe in, you know, discipline. And that's kind of where we got stability and order.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
What issue makes me rage? Well, I guess if there's any issue making me rage right now, it is this American disengagement, which takes the form of a few issues. It's the tariffs. I mean, tariffs are a form of disengagement. We are walling ourselves off.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
What also makes me rage as part of this disengagement is this total rejection of our friends and allies, the treatment of Zelensky in the Oval Office and abandoning Ukraine by the president in favor of Russia. Now, they'll deny that, but it sure feels that way. I mean, that makes me rage that we've also just unilaterally just eliminated much of our soft power arsenal.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
in this country, again, another form of disengagement. That kind of makes me rage. And I feel like that, you know, people, this is all happening, and we're pretending that there are not gonna be any geopolitical or economic implications for us, and there will be.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
This is so self-inflicted and so unnecessary, where the United States of America is the greatest, strongest, most powerful nation on Earth, and we're not acting like it. We're acting like we are somehow this aggrieved victim. that has suffered all these past 80 years since the Second World War.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
My view has always been we've done pretty damn well over the years, particularly since the Second World War. We created an international order. We led it. And now we're walking away from it, trying to blow it up. And many of the very friends and allies who benefit from it are now trying to figure out a way to restore it as best they can because it's meant so much.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
It makes me rage that we've decided that Canada is now a threat and that now there's serious talk of annexation. I mean, this is radical. I mean, when Donald Trump ran, he didn't talk about annexing Canada. I mean, I didn't hear any of this stuff. I mean, it's just, I mean, I just think this is very extreme and it makes me rage.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And what was the other, what makes me- What do you think we need to calm down about? I think we all need to calm, you know, we all talk about our losing our republic. And I've, look, I know there are threats to the constitutional order. I get it. But I still have faith in many institutions and that, you know, we do have a lot of folks.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
We have strong civil society groups and the courts that I think will do what they need to do at a time like this. Does that mean they're under threat? Yeah, we're still under threat. But I think we just need to take a deep breath and recognize that we are a lot stronger institutionally than we've given ourselves credit for.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Thank you, Jessica. Great to be with you.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
I mean, that's where I think a lot of sort of center right folks come from or center right conservatives come from. And I don't think that's where the party is right now. It's taken on a form of, you know, radical positions like on tariffs that are completely antithetical to.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
to free markets and certainly represent a type of revolutionary change that should really appall people who would kind of embrace that center-right or conservative ideology.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Well, Trump's tariff policy is essentially very similar to what the AFL-CIO would be proposing. The AFL-CIO Democrats, Sean Fain at the UAW, is very supportive of many of these tariffs, apparently. And I guess what I find remarkable is that Democrats have not been able to articulate a strong, forceful opposition policy To the Trump tariffs, because many of them agree with the basic policy.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
They might not like the way Trump is doing it. But for years, you know, I've been in politics. I've heard plenty of Democrats from Bernie Sanders and others, you know, who've embraced this idea of protectionism in a very naked form. And that's what I guess disturbs me most about where my party is, is that we were not that party.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
We were the party that was embracing opening markets for American producers. We had a forward looking aspirational view of the world. that we could actually compete. And many of those who were advocating this type of protectionism had thrown up their hands and said, boy, you know, we're just not good enough anymore.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And, you know, look, I'm all for using tariffs and countervailing duties on a very targeted basis, but in response to problems, you know, illegal dumping or illegal subsidies, certainly people, countries that are using child labor, you
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And other forms of what we would consider to be real trade abuses are in the case of China, where they coerce technology transfers, which is a big problem, or steal intellectual property. Okay, that's how you use them, but we don't use these across-the-board tariffs against friend and foe alike. and think that this is somehow going to grow our economy, it'll just have the opposite effect.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
It'll be very negative and it'll punish American consumers as well as manufacturers and farmers. And it's pretty self-evident to me, and just look at how the markets have reacted, if we need any further explanation. But you're seeing it all across the country, people are reacting.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Just the other day in the Allentown Morning Call, Mack Trucks said they're laying off 250 to 350 employees, largely over the tariffs. I mean, this is what we're dealing with. It's
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
First, Democratic approval ratings are in the tank as well. I mean, their numbers are not very good. Many people I saw a poll recently suggesting about 70 percent of voters thought they were out of touch with the American public.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
But at the end of the day, what I do think motivates those voters who would prove decisive in a presidential election, these are the voters who are not firmly in the Trump camp or firmly in the Democratic or Kamala Harris camp. These are people who are persuadable. And it's quite clear to me that many of them were motivated by economic issues.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And so to the extent that we are having this debate about where Trump said he was going to lower prices on day one, and here we are going into a trade war. that is having real-world impacts on people's 401ks. They're worried about their jobs. A recession seems probable at this point. And I think economic issues will drive the day.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And of course, what we're hearing, none of this policy is lowering prices. So even though the president is, I think, largely in step with where the American people are on border security, where they clearly want the border controlled. They might not like the way Trump does things.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
I think at the end of the day, these economic issues are going to motivate those other, what I'll call swing voters, what's left of them. And, you know, remember too, I also looked at some polling recently too, you know, on this 100 day anniversary, there must've been a dozen polls. And so I'm kind of pulled out. I try not to talk about polls too often, but
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
They all came out and it showed the generic congressional ballot, I think, was about minus seven for the Republicans. So, I mean, in other words, the Democrats were doing better there. And remember, midterm elections are usually not about the party out of power, even though Democrats are doing very unfavorably. Luckily for them, the election is not going to be about them. It's going to be about
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Donald Trump and the Republican Party. That's how midterms typically go.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
to you but can't bring themselves to tick the box for a democrat well what i tell them you know you vote vote your values and i said here you know here's my values as a republican i do think we should be about a strong national defense or peace through strength and that means you embrace your allies you don't embrace autocrats like vladimir putin and kim jong-un Why would we do this?
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And so that's one issue. We should embrace economic freedom as a party. We should be vigorously opposed to these types of indiscriminate across-the-board tariffs. We should be for certain things and against certain things. So we need to articulate this. We should be for the Constitution. that we believe in the rule of law. These are fundamentally Republican and conservative principles.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
We should be about the union, trying to keep it together. Our founder was Abraham Lincoln. That's what he was about and why our party was born, to maintain this union as big and diverse as it is and as challenging as it can be. So these are just a few core principles that I think we need to
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
continue to beat on and in fact i'm i'm part of an organization called our our republican legacy where we have articulated many of these principles where we are trying to talk to republicans about you know embracing real principles not about simply adopting whatever it is that the president wants is
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Yeah, I don't think... with the party, I don't believe the party goes back to where it was. But at the same time, some of those principles I just laid out are enduring principles. They're the ones that have sustained the party since Abraham Lincoln. And so I think that we should focus on those core principles once again. Like I said, we should be talking about peace through strength.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
We should be talking about embracing allies. We should be talking about the constitution, the union. You know, economic freedom. We should be talking about those things that I think most Republicans still embrace, even those who support Trump. There are a lot of people who are Trump voters. who aren't real happy with everything he says and does and may disagree with him.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
They're voting for Trump because they so much dislike where the Democrats are on many policy issues. So I think that's really where we need leadership in the party to present a counter-narrative quite often. You hear the MAGA narrative, and where I've been critical of some of my former congressional Republican colleagues is they've been too quiet.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
You cannot counter that MAGA narrative with silence. Silence is silence. If there's nothing narrative to counter MAGA's argument, well, then MAGA's going to win every single time. But I think because of this trade war, there's a tremendous opening for a lot of Republicans to counter.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And remember, too, Donald Trump's not ever going to be on the ballot again, at least not legally or constitutionally. He's not going to be on the ballot again. And so he's a lame duck president. And Republicans will be up in 2026. And many of them are going to need separation from Donald Trump. And now is the time to start making arguments.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
about how they are different than the president, particularly those who are in those marginal and swing districts who hope to survive. They're not going to be able to run simply embracing Donald Trump, whose approval rating is what, around 40 now, low 40s? That's not a way you're going to win an election. So I think there's an opportunity now for Republicans to start speaking up.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Well, remember what happened during Trump won on, let's take the Medicaid issue. And at that point, reconciliation was being used to repeal and replace Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act. And I was one of the folks who rang the bell on the Medicaid issue at the time because you remember what the debate was then.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Many states like mine had expanded Medicaid and that it was basically we would have ended up dumping all sorts of millions of people back onto the market with an insufficient tax credit. They would have lost coverage. And I just said, this is not acceptable. And I was making arguments on behalf of various Republican governors.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
four of whom asked me to present Donald Trump with a letter about this issue, which I did directly. And what was that like? Well, I had two meetings with him, actually, one in the Oval Office where I gave him the letter. He was respectful. He listened. And I told him my concerns with the bill. And that meeting ended fine. That was on Tuesday.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Thursday, I got invited back and it was a smackdown meeting. You know why? You know, basically in front of a whole bunch of people. I told him I wouldn't vote for the bill and I was against it. And he was, you know, he took it well the first time. It was the second and third time he went crazy and told me I was going to destroy the Republican Party.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
As he's berating me, you know, I'm not voting for the bill. And I told him why, because he basically had me back in on a Thursday and I, there were 17 members of Congress around the table in the cabinet room. And he said to me, I was the second one he called on. That's how I was voting. And I said, I'm against the bill. I'm going to vote yes. And then, you know, then he said, well, why?
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
And I said, well, For the same reasons I told you on Tuesday, you know, it's Thursday and nothing's really changed. And so, but bottom line is after he got done, you know, trying to berate me or trying to bully me, I said, Mr. President, can I ask you a question? He said, yeah. And I said, are you telling me, because he kept saying taxes are done, taxes are done.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
You remember at that time they were trying to do tax reform. And I said, are you telling me, Mr. President, that if we don't pass this, this healthcare bill in this particular form, we won't be able to do tax reform because the tax baseline is not going to be low enough. That's exactly right. And when you lose, you lose.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
He goes off again, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, same stuff, repeating himself. And it kind of got nasty. And then after about a long time of this, you know, we're going back and forth a little bit and finally it ends. And it was, this is all picked up in one of the tell-all books, a team of vipers for about three pages. I didn't know that until the book was written.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Jessica, great to be with you. Thank you.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Didn't even know anybody was taking notes or recording it.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
Someone is there. Cliff Sims, who worked for me, wrote the book. He did it. So basically, it all breaks. So he gets done with his tirade. I had asked him my questions. And then we just sat there staring at each other. A real awkward silence that I forgot about, but they recounted in the book. And then he said, yeah, well, Trump realized at that moment that wasn't budging.
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
So then Trump goes around the whole room, asks everybody how they're voting. Yes, lean yes. That took a while. And then one of the guys, And now a couple of them lied to him, but that's to be expected. And so after it's all over, after 45 minutes of all this going around the room and chit-chatting about other things, he turns back at me and he says, you still a hard no?
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
The Future of Anti-Trump Republicans (feat. Charlie Dent)
I said, yeah, I'm still a no, Mr. President. With that, he goes off again. Now, I was really getting annoyed at this point. I finally, I waited like five or 10 seconds. I said, oh, come on, Mr. President. He said, oh, I'm done talking to you. I don't want to hear it. Tell them anything. turns away like that and looks in the other direction. The meeting breaks up.