Chris Duffy

And so it's okay for me to not like that.

But then some of it is like,

The ability to like attempt a small home repair or to like go swimming and think of myself as a swimmer, it's challenging those beliefs.

And then when I do it, I'm like, oh, but actually I do enjoy this or, oh, that actually wasn't as hard as I thought.

Or even if I mess it up, it's not a big deal to mess it up.

And now there's three or five or even 12 little holes in the wall, but they're all covered up by the painting by the time it's hung up.

I'll give you a more vulnerable one, which, you know, I don't I have less of an explanation as to like where it comes from or what it is.

But I think that I sometimes have this feeling that the thing that makes me and not even sometimes I think I often or maybe always have this feeling that like the thing that makes me good or would make other people think that I'm good is like a collection of evidence that I'm putting together.

And that if I don't have a strong enough pile of evidence that I'm good, that like it could be cross examined away and that actually they would find out the truth that like I'm not a good person or I'm not worthy.

You know, it's like I if I'm able to say, well, I did this and I did this favor for this person and I was kind in this way.

And like, look, judge, here's all the evidence.

Like, surely I'm a good person, but it's not some sort of core internal thing.

It ties at something else that you you've talked about in your work, which is like sometimes if we act as though the thing is true, even if we don't believe it.

That that can lead that thing to become true.

And so, like, for example, right, like you are really depressed and you are feeling horrible and you don't have any energy.

sometimes the thing that could actually help is to just be like, well, what would you do today if you weren't depressed and you did have energy?

And then to force yourself to do some version of that is like, even though you're like, the last thing I want to do is call up a friend and go see a movie.

If you force yourself to do that, you may find afterwards, huh, I actually feel less bad than I did before.

Dr. Jenny Tates, it was such a pleasure to talk to you.

You are really incredible.