Chris Mason

That's a difficult thing to do.

Equally it is difficult, and I've spoken to people in this position as well, who on the balance of the evidence as they see it,

have come to the alternative view, which is that they think the prime minister should stay in place, even though they too may have been subjected to the kind of grumblings or frankly downright quite noisy critique that plenty of Labour folk have heard on the doorstep about Keir Starmer.

These are not easy decisions for people to make in either direction.

I think you've got a sense of that.

Listening to Miata Fambula there, not least because kind of every actor in this drama, I don't want to say drama in a trivializing way, but every actor in this drama is not in control of what happens.

They're in control of their own judgments, but they don't know where things are going to end up.

And so they're making those leaps without being certain where things will end up.

And, you know, that's quite a thing.

Yeah, recall the name Owen Smith, who was the challenger and there was a contest and Jeremy Corbyn as the incumbent, as you say, did win.

In fact, I remember...

when it all happened.

I remember one evening going on the PM programme on Radio 4, and I think my entire report was just reading out the list, because it was a massive, massive list of resignations.

I think the key point, though, Adam, is the one you make there in your observation.

They weren't in government.

And it's just on a totally different scale, isn't it?

Massively, massively different scale.

I think I might have to check this.

I think Tony Blair once said something about at least the Labour Party's had the decency to have its big rows whilst it's been in opposition.

I'll have to check that.