Claire Nicholls

You do have a reputation, Michael, for doing things your own way.

Famously, Grimish, the first ever self-published novel to be long-listed and then shortlisted for the Miles Franklin.

I'm keen to learn a little bit more about that because we've not talked before.

What was the situation there?

Was it a case of not being able to find a publisher for Grimish?

Be honest, though, does having a publisher and an editor cramp your style in any way?

Do you have as much scope to be as weird as you want to when there's a publishing house behind the book?

And maybe not so many would want to go and escape it all and live as a pet, perhaps.

Well, look, congratulations on this book and your incredible path to having this book published.

It's called Grief Dog.

It's published by Text.

Michael Winkler, it's been wonderful to meet you.

You're listening to The Book Show on ABC Radio National.

My name is Claire Nicholls and this is Kay Tempest.

Kay Tempest there describing life in a trans body in his song, I Stand on the Line.

Honestly, go and listen to the whole thing.

It is raw and so powerful.

And Kay is a British musician, poet, playwright and author who has been a force in the world of rap and spoken word poetry since he was a teenager.

And Kay brings that same lyrical magic you just heard to his second novel.

It's called Having Spent Life Seeking, and it's about Rothko, who's out of jail and back in the hometown where everything fell apart.