Clare Byrne

And then going back to the conflict in Gaza, it was a similar situation where...

where we had Spain going out on a limb and Ireland going out on a limb to a certain extent without it felt the backing of the EU.

Well, you've taken me into why you've used the mirror here, because the mirror reflects who we are and who the European Union is.

And our identity is retained as Ireland.

But we also see that reflection of ourselves in the European Union.

So it is complex in that regard.

Absolutely.

We retain our autonomy, in other words.

People worry about that, though, don't they?

Further cooperation.

And, you know, you've touched on this in our conversation around unanimity because of the increasing threat from Russia, the changing relationship with the United States.

Do you see the raison d'etre, if you like, of the European Union changing?

You say it's under threat, but we've had the political change in Hungary now.

Hungary had long been under Viktor Orban, the fly in the European ointment.

We see the regret taking hold in Britain following on from Brexit with the Labour Party now grappling with this question of whether we should rejoin under Andy Burnham or under Keir Starmer, even it becoming a question for him.

Wes Treating has put it front and centre of his campaign whenever it gets going.

Do those issues not strengthen the EU?

Would you want to see them back in?

They'd have to be charged a high price, though, after putting us through 10 years of pain to get them out.

Nigel Farage could be the next Prime Minister, so the question may not arise.