Cliff Sosin

And how do you weight them? Like, equally? Is it by AUM? What if it's an institution? Do you poll the underlying people at the institution? Like, this is a wild thing. I think a much better approach is to just say that the goal is to maximize And obviously, in doing that, companies have to comply by the law. You have to comply by the law. And you have to take the change in norms into account.

And how do you weight them? Like, equally? Is it by AUM? What if it's an institution? Do you poll the underlying people at the institution? Like, this is a wild thing. I think a much better approach is to just say that the goal is to maximize And obviously, in doing that, companies have to comply by the law. You have to comply by the law. And you have to take the change in norms into account.

But laying any sort of further ethics onto that. And then, of course, if you maximize returns, people can, of course, take that money and give it to whatever charity they feel that they want to. And I think that that's sort of the only solution. It's like the only solution that I think kind of resolves this problem that isn't fraught

But laying any sort of further ethics onto that. And then, of course, if you maximize returns, people can, of course, take that money and give it to whatever charity they feel that they want to. And I think that that's sort of the only solution. It's like the only solution that I think kind of resolves this problem that isn't fraught

I've noticed in my career that people in investing circles, they talk a lot about panics, this idea that you want to buy when things are bad. I have noticed that there are certainly economic panics that have happened in my career. I've also noticed there's sort of moral panics that have happened.

I've noticed in my career that people in investing circles, they talk a lot about panics, this idea that you want to buy when things are bad. I have noticed that there are certainly economic panics that have happened in my career. I've also noticed there's sort of moral panics that have happened.

you know, you can buy into moral panics much the way you can buy into economic panics and you can do well. Now, economic panics bring with them the risk that things could get worse and the business might not survive the challenges that lay ahead. Moral panics bring with them the risk that You could bring about legislative or regulatory rulemaking change that can hurt the company.

you know, you can buy into moral panics much the way you can buy into economic panics and you can do well. Now, economic panics bring with them the risk that things could get worse and the business might not survive the challenges that lay ahead. Moral panics bring with them the risk that You could bring about legislative or regulatory rulemaking change that can hurt the company.

And so you need to take these things into account. But I think that it's reasonable as an investor to look to areas that are viewed as sort of bad but are not illegal. Right. And for what it's worth, when I've dug into most things like this, I've always discovered that these things are far more complicated than the sort of naive, you know, coal is bad. Okay, well, sure.

And so you need to take these things into account. But I think that it's reasonable as an investor to look to areas that are viewed as sort of bad but are not illegal. Right. And for what it's worth, when I've dug into most things like this, I've always discovered that these things are far more complicated than the sort of naive, you know, coal is bad. Okay, well, sure.

But, you know, electricity is pretty good. Yeah. You know, so it's complicated. I'll add one other thing, which is this idea that I think you mentioned, which is funds that can't invest or whatever. You know, there's an implicit point that you're sort of saying, which is an elasticity of price concept.

But, you know, electricity is pretty good. Yeah. You know, so it's complicated. I'll add one other thing, which is this idea that I think you mentioned, which is funds that can't invest or whatever. You know, there's an implicit point that you're sort of saying, which is an elasticity of price concept.

And I'm not that... I think the literature on this kind of agrees with me, but I don't think that groups of investors deciding to forego certain asset classes like oil companies necessarily cause them to be super cheap. I do think that there can be sort of more broad based things where people kind of don't want to own something for some reason.

And I'm not that... I think the literature on this kind of agrees with me, but I don't think that groups of investors deciding to forego certain asset classes like oil companies necessarily cause them to be super cheap. I do think that there can be sort of more broad based things where people kind of don't want to own something for some reason.

And that can, you know, and if it's really broad, it can have some effect. But I think mostly what happens is people just kind of get scared. It's more of a panic. People get scared, like, oh, no, you know, this company is going to get shut down because, you know, this group of people view it as terrible and they're going to try to kill it.

And that can, you know, and if it's really broad, it can have some effect. But I think mostly what happens is people just kind of get scared. It's more of a panic. People get scared, like, oh, no, you know, this company is going to get shut down because, you know, this group of people view it as terrible and they're going to try to kill it.

Sure, and part of the reason, actually almost all the reason, I said yes, more than all the reason, I said yes to coming on. is that it has been such a wild episode in business history. And I sort of worried that if I didn't try to memorialize it to some extent, that it would get forgotten. And it is such an interesting story. I think it deserves to be memorialized.

Sure, and part of the reason, actually almost all the reason, I said yes, more than all the reason, I said yes to coming on. is that it has been such a wild episode in business history. And I sort of worried that if I didn't try to memorialize it to some extent, that it would get forgotten. And it is such an interesting story. I think it deserves to be memorialized.

I also think it's sort of wildly misunderstood in terms of what happened to Carvana in 2022 and And 23 and beyond. So, yeah, I guess maybe a place to start just to level set for people who don't know it so well. Carvana is an online retailer of used cars. It was founded in 2013 by Ernie Garcia, who you've had on.

I also think it's sort of wildly misunderstood in terms of what happened to Carvana in 2022 and And 23 and beyond. So, yeah, I guess maybe a place to start just to level set for people who don't know it so well. Carvana is an online retailer of used cars. It was founded in 2013 by Ernie Garcia, who you've had on.