Damien Hughes

What a beautiful story.

I mean, would you tell us about that play state?

Because there's a line in your book that I underlined when I read it where it said that most adults are underplayed rather than overworked, which really resonated with me.

Well, the one that comes to mind, Ben, is I sat with a blank piece of paper and a load of colouring pens

And I still love it now.

Like when I get a blank piece of paper and just the idea of playing and creating something completely from my imagination is what, as you're saying it, it brings me real calm.

I remember doing it when I was a kid.

I used to love sitting at the kitchen table and just sort of doodling away.

And even the Boris Becker, the tongue would come out while I'd be sort of focusing and concentrating.

And occasionally now I still get the chance and my wife will catch me and she knows that I'm in a playset because my tongue is coming out while I'm focusing and drawing or trying to scribble ideas down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, playful, absorbed, calm, like pleasure, you know, like pleasure would definitely be there.

And just like creativity, right?

Creativity and imagination.

So, I mean, this has been an amazing, fascinating chat.

So thank you for giving us your time, Ben.

I suppose my last question for this is, what would you say is one practical tool that you would want a listener to walk away from listening to this, to know, to do, to understand on how they can introduce more play into their lives?

Well, Ben, like Will, our brilliant producer, and myself, we both said that this morning.

It's a bank holiday here in the UK.

So we both said this morning when we woke up that we get to –