Damien Hughes

Yeah, the book's called Where the Light Gets In.

It's been published in the UK from the start of July, so you should be able to get it any time now.

It's a brilliant read, really good.

As you heard in the interview there, we talk about not just sport, we talk about Teddy Roosevelt, we talk about

the lawyer that stood up against Donald Trump fairly recently, and a whole range of other topics about where Ben's wisdom has helped them find the joy in what they do and ultimately delivered their definition of high performance.

Yes, I've tried to, definitely.

it's hard sometimes isn't it I think I recognise it's often in moments of insecurity where you sort of fall back on but where you fall back on what you might call achievements or successes that you've had and just learning to recognise that my kids don't give a shit my kids want me there for just being their dad my wife wants me around for being a husband and that's enough have you?

But then, do you then start to think that that diminishes who you are, though?

Because you can focus on... That's just the professional side of me.

He's probably a bit wrapped up.

I think you're further along the path than what you initially said because the fact is you can want to win without wanting to win at the expense of all things.

Yeah.

And me, Damien Hughes.

it shows up as anxiety.

I feel it in my stomach.

I recognise when I feel nervous or when fear shows up, it's in my stomach is where it registers first.

Yeah.

Well, let me ask you then.

So we're going to talk about Ferry in more detail.

So when you speak to Seb and maybe he's feeling nervous before a cup final or like the anxiety is spiking, what do you say to him?