Daniel Ek

And that's just a few of the things that I've learned, which has helped me as a leader as well.

And that's just a few of the things that I've learned, which has helped me as a leader as well.

Well, I mean, the rule I have with Mark is I don't try to go into a competition with him because I know it'll end badly for both of us. So, you know, as you know, Mark likes sports. So one of the things I don't do with Mark is play sports for exactly this reason. You know, what was the last time he sort of tore his ACL when someone, you know, rather than giving up. So...

Well, I mean, the rule I have with Mark is I don't try to go into a competition with him because I know it'll end badly for both of us. So, you know, as you know, Mark likes sports. So one of the things I don't do with Mark is play sports for exactly this reason. You know, what was the last time he sort of tore his ACL when someone, you know, rather than giving up. So...

I feel like it'd end pretty badly. I like playing when I know I'll win, so I think it's a pretty good thing to not do that.

I feel like it'd end pretty badly. I like playing when I know I'll win, so I think it's a pretty good thing to not do that.

That's pretty much spot on, to be honest. One of the things we talk about a lot that I don't say that much, but Gustav, who's backstage here, who's our product officer and CTO, is we say talk is sheep. Most people talk about execution, speed of execution, let's move, let's go. We actually spend a lot of time just discussing and talking.

That's pretty much spot on, to be honest. One of the things we talk about a lot that I don't say that much, but Gustav, who's backstage here, who's our product officer and CTO, is we say talk is sheep. Most people talk about execution, speed of execution, let's move, let's go. We actually spend a lot of time just discussing and talking.

So the internal saying at Spotify is talk is sheep because we want to be really deliberate about what it is we're doing and how we're doing it.

So the internal saying at Spotify is talk is sheep because we want to be really deliberate about what it is we're doing and how we're doing it.

Exactly right. It's more expensive to build than most people think. And so we actually spend a lot of time discussing, and people get really confused when they enter our culture. They're like, but why don't we just execute? And we're still sitting and debating and game theorizing how this will play out and getting all the things right. working in a certain way.

Exactly right. It's more expensive to build than most people think. And so we actually spend a lot of time discussing, and people get really confused when they enter our culture. They're like, but why don't we just execute? And we're still sitting and debating and game theorizing how this will play out and getting all the things right. working in a certain way.

And we have our sort of ways of doing that now that we've sort of codified across the company, which I think is pretty unique at this point. But a part of that is also because, so to set the stage is because we had to, because remember everything, unlike many other products, when you're building a company, you can kind of sort of iterate and do stuff. We had to get the entire industry with us.

And we have our sort of ways of doing that now that we've sort of codified across the company, which I think is pretty unique at this point. But a part of that is also because, so to set the stage is because we had to, because remember everything, unlike many other products, when you're building a company, you can kind of sort of iterate and do stuff. We had to get the entire industry with us.

So if we wanted to do something, we had to convince a bunch of people that it was the right thing to do. And in many cases, even making relatively simple changes could take one or two years for us to get licensed. So you better be sure that you're right when you're doing it. And this has kind of now become a thing in how we're doing stuff.

So if we wanted to do something, we had to convince a bunch of people that it was the right thing to do. And in many cases, even making relatively simple changes could take one or two years for us to get licensed. So you better be sure that you're right when you're doing it. And this has kind of now become a thing in how we're doing stuff.

We're probably not going to be the fastest in moving fast and breaking things. That's it. But we are going to be very deliberate, and we're probably going to be more right when we actually do something.

We're probably not going to be the fastest in moving fast and breaking things. That's it. But we are going to be very deliberate, and we're probably going to be more right when we actually do something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we won't be the fastest, no.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we won't be the fastest, no.