Daniel Ek

Hi.

Hi.

2012, 13?

2012, 13?

But I think the amazing thing is, unlike you talking to a journalist, et cetera, it's truly a conversation one.

And the second part is there's enough time to actually elaborate on the thought and the idea.

Whereas you have to be so succinct in how you express your idea and truly get it across in 30 seconds, or like you lose the moment and the journalists want to move on.

Brian Chesky is an example.

He's like the master on it.

He just switches it on and he's like so good.

For some reason, he and I always end up getting on the same panels.

And I'm like, it's game over even before it started.

You're going to have all the great stuff.

I like to say that there was probably this genius insight at some point in moment, but that's certainly not in the case of Spotify true.

It is often quite serendipitous.

And for a long time, you know, I was kind of finding the urge on this, but we were oftentimes trying to not think of ourselves as the users and customers, because once you got through kind of a hundred million users, you're kind of like, well,

Obviously, I shouldn't be the target demo.

I need to kind of listen to what the actual users are telling me.

And there's some part that's true with that.

But then more and more what I've realized is also that actually internally, we probably have the best sounding board of a quite representative Spotify user and what they might like.