Daniel Ek

probably better than the average creator for you guys just given the type of audience that people want to want to get to but you could even contemplate like some of your deep dives like i've i've heard like actual hedge fund investors literally have that as the sole input to their entire process which is terrifying yeah well not investment advice yeah exactly

But I mean, it is one of the areas that I'm kind of the most intrigued about.

I think Ben Thompson had this piece very recently.

I think he called it like the unified content business model piece.

I don't necessarily agree with everything he said, but I think his main takeaway is obviously that all media models ought to move to freemium.

As someone who's been saying that for 15 years, I obviously agree with him there.

But I think that's true in all formats, right?

Like, as I said, I think, you know, what's the difference between audiobooks and podcasting?

There are definitely differences, but the formats are blurring.

But the main one is the business model, as I said.

So it's just, it's talk audio, but with a paid or an ad-supported business model.

And I guess my advice to you guys would just be, I think you should kind of like explore both and see to an extent what's possible.

Yeah.

Well, I think it was a bit of both.

And you have to contemplate that if you're making moves, like certainly of our size, because many of these investments that we're making are multi-year ones and pretty substantial from a signaling point of view too.

And obviously public market investors want to know like, well, is this ultimately a good business and why do you think that is?

And

for me to have said, well, we've bought a bunch of companies, but I don't really know what kind of business it'll be.

It's probably not gonna be the right answer.

So obviously we contemplated that and we thought about that, but the reality is there's a lot of the grass is greener on the other side when you go too deep in that.