Daniel Kokotajlo

What should we be thinking about in order to avoid this kind of ghoulish future?

I mean, the worry there is maybe I should have defended this view more through this entire episode, but I do think because I don't buy the intelligence explosion fully, I do think there's the possibility of multiple people deploying powerful AS at the same time and having a world that has ASIs but is also decentralized the way the modern world is decentralized.

In that world, I really worry about, because you could just be like, oh, classical liberal utopia achieved.

But I worry about the fact that you can just have these torture chambers for much cheaper and in a way that's much harder to monitor.

You can have millions of beings that are being tortured and it doesn't even have to be some huge data center.

Future distilled models could just, you know, could like literally be your backyard.

Yeah.

I don't know.

And then there's more speculative worries about I had this physicist on who was talking about the possibility of creating vacuum decay where you literally just destroy the universe.

And he's like, as far as I know, it seems totally plausible.

Can I ask a little bit more about the – Kelsey Piper is a journalist at Vox who published this exchange you had with the OpenAI representative.

And it was – a couple of things were very obvious from that exchange.

One –

Nobody had done this before.

They just did not think this is a thing somebody would do.

And it was because one of the reasons I assume – I assume many high-integrity people have worked for OpenAI and then have left.

A high-integrity person might say at some point, like, look, you're asking me to do something obviously evil and keep money.

And many of them would say no to that.

But this is something where it was just like –

super augatory to be like there's no immediate thing i want to say right now but just the principle of being suppressed is worth at least two million dollars uh for me and and the other thing that i actually want to ask you about is in retrospect and i know it's so much easier to say in retrospect than it must have been at the time especially with the family and everything in retrospect i