Daniel McConnell

Or is it complicity or, you know, compliance with Europe?

How do they...

What are the games that go on?

Because they're your eyes and ears.

And I think... And even communications, because I often see... It's nuts.

Like, you cannot get promoted if your background is communication.

You need a policy wing.

Yeah.

So is the state almost getting in its own way?

Because it does deliberately... To an insider, that sort of talk is just... It's bonkers.

What has been your most challenging moment?

And we'll get into the housing in deeper detail shortly.

But what has been your most frustrating time moment as a minister?

I've long held the view that

having, you know, I started in Les Giles in 2007.

So I was a couple, so I was like your generation, Derek O'Leary, Michael McGrath, like we all started at the same time in Les Giles.

So I was there through the end of Bertie into Brian Cannon's government, that collapse of government.

And the crash, it was horrific.

But for me, the legacy, or one of the legacies is that is that the permanent government

became too powerful.