Daniel McConnell

So it's more about are you in control of the bounce of the ball?

Because I can understand from, say, even reading Owen Murphy's book about how the game can almost run away from you.

Because again, I suppose to kind of reveal, like you have your team that works to you and then you have the civil service who probably... Supposed to work for me.

But I'm thinking of the, like we all grew up on, those of us who are into politics, we were grown up on Yes Minister, we would have seen the sort of the games that can be played and we all know how the system itself works.

And, I mean, your own government, I suppose, has acknowledged that the system can slow everything down, can be bureaucratic, can be... I mean, talk to me about those tensions and when they arise.

Like, how do you just manage, how do you make things move forward if you're meeting that sort of institutional resistance?

The Darragh gets it done.

How does that testing manifest itself?

Is it around numbers?

Is it around budgets?

Is it around the policy?

Or is it complicity or, you know, compliance with Europe?

How do they...

What are the games that go on?

Because they're your eyes and ears.

And I think... And even communications, because I often see... It's nuts.

Like, you cannot get promoted if your background is communication.

You need a policy wing.

Yeah.

So is the state almost getting in its own way?