Daniel Okrent

And there was no effort of hiding that relationship.

In his lifetime, yeah.

Let's talk about Bernstein.

When the two met, Sondheim was 25 and he came in to sort of audition as a lyricist for West Side Story.

And Bernstein, who was at that time the best known non-rock musician in America by far, television star, music star, Bernstein immediately embraced him and hired him.

along with his collaborators on the show, to write the lyrics for this very unlikely show about street gangs in New York in the mid to late 1950s.

And they were a great combination.

There are problems with the show they both would perceive in later years, but I think anybody who's familiar with the score...

of West Side Story would say that it was a success.

And from that moment on, Sondheim became part of the Bernstein social world, which was the red hot center of the creative world of New York.

In fact, a world that Sondheim would later parody or satirize, I should say, that he would satirize and merrily we can roll along.

But at that time, he was taken in.

He was taken in by everybody who mattered in the world of music and theater and books and dance.

And he became very close with the Bernstein family.

But over the years, what was a wonderful collaboration and a loving friendship turned a little bit into rivalry, and then it soured toward the end of Bernstein's life.

My supposition, and it's only a supposition, is that at the time that Sondheim's reputation as a composer was rising and had nearly reached its peak, Bernstein's reputation as a composer was plummeting.

And the relationship changed.

One was now a musical success.

The other was now somebody who was having a very hard time holding things together musically and in many other aspects of his life.

It was Sweeney Todd, of which he said about Sweeney Todd, he said, the music made me want to throw up in my galoshes.