Dave Davies

When Trump lost the election in 2020, do you know if she joined in his claims that the election was stolen?

Did she embrace that?

But it's interesting.

You write that after the election, she had an Oval Office meeting.

This is in 2020 with a couple of other high-ranking White House staffers and talked about forming a think tank to continue Donald Trump's policy agenda.

They formed the America First Policy Institute, which was kind of less well-known than Project 2025, which was run by the Heritage Foundation, which was actually in some ways more influential, wasn't it?

So the second term starts when Trump wins reelection in 2024.

What do you know about Trump's conversations with Linda McMahon about what role she would have?

Well, not many cabinet appointments go that way, but she took it on.

Let's talk a little about the Department of Education.

You know, since the 1980s, conservatives have talked about eliminating it.

Ronald Reagan did.

Of course, that didn't happen.

And I think the image among conservatives is that the Department of Education is this liberal, elitist bunch of bureaucrats issuing politically correct edicts about what kids should learn.

What does the Department of Education actually do?

So that would be a complaint of someone who says you haven't provided proper educational instruction for my child with disabilities or there's an example of prejudice, anti-Semitism or racism, that kind of thing?

We need to take another break here.

Let me reintroduce you.

We are speaking with Zach Helfand.

He is a staff writer at The New Yorker.